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Zig 0.4.0 Released

ziglang.org

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Re: Zig 0.4.0 Released

#131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mainly because it seems like you constantly lie and make promises you can't keep. Some of your claims are outrageous without any evidence. Of course I would like to be proven wrong.

Can you give an example of my "constant lies" and outrageous claims?

Release the code of your doom3 to v translation, release the code of your sqlite translation.

You can't because they don't exist. And don't say "release coming in 3 days" or some other BS like you normally do. It seems like a way to divert attention until people forget to check again.

It won't work. I can see 300 dollars a month on your patreon, which is probably why you exaggerate so much.

Re: Zig 0.4.0 Released

#132
post #81
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well you learn to appreciate the value of RAII and exception working on high-availability software. It's almost impossible to have correct error paths and deinitialization without. I'm very doubtful the new crop of languages without exceptions and RAII actually care about correctness in the wild. Better than template without uniform representation? template is just copy-paste you don't _have_ to use it. Same remark f…

> Well you learn to appreciate the value of RAII and exception working on high-availability software. Alternatively, you'll learn to not appreciate the value of exceptions working on high-availability software. Not personal experience, but AFAIK Google (definitely lots of highly-available software) disallows using exceptions in C++.

They have a critical mass of bad legacy code.

> Because most existing C++ code at Google is not prepared to deal with exceptions, it is comparatively difficult to adopt new code that generates exceptions[....] Things would probably be different if we had to do it all over again from scratch. - https://google.github.io/styleguide/cppguide.html#Exceptions

Re: Zig 0.4.0 Released

#133

First time I saw a presentation on Zig by its creator it left a bad taste in my mouth: I looked like a "simplified Rust", with a lot of suspiciously similar names on the standard libraries and default types, yet there were zero references to Rust in any part of the presentation. In fact, it seemed like there was an active effort to avoid mentioning Rust, even though a lot of the things addressed by the language are/w…

If you're accusing the author of something just spit it out.

> the one continuously posting links about Zig here is just self-promoting their own creation

Nothing wrong with that. If their creation fails to excite people, there won't be any conversation, it won't make it to the first page, etc.

Re: Zig 0.4.0 Released

#134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you give an example of my "constant lies" and outrageous claims?

Release the code of your doom3 to v translation, release the code of your sqlite translation. You can't because they don't exist. And don't say "release coming in 3 days" or some other BS like you normally do. It seems like a way to divert attention until people forget to check again. It won't work. I can see 300 dollars a month on your patreon, which is probably why you exaggerate so much.

Anyway, I didn't mean to call you a liar, I just meant I will be very happy once it is released. My apologies.

Re: Zig 0.4.0 Released

#135
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Python has an even closer relationship between comments and string literals: its multiline comments are just string literals that get never used. That's not entirely true. A literal string immediately following a class or function is inspectable via its __doc__ member. E.g. class Foo: "I am Foo." def bar(self): "I am Foo.bar" Foo.__doc__ will have "I am Foo.", and Foo.bar.__doc__ will have "I am Foo.bar". This is r…

Cool, didn't know about that!

These are used by python's documentation tools to extract documentation from running objects by importing and examining __doc__ of objects, instead of extracting docs from comments like Java or c++ doxygen. It also makes it easier to document python modules written in c since you just attach their docstrings and examine them at runtime same as any python module

Either pythons stdlib crappy pydoc module

`python -m pydoc -w ModuleName`

the simple pdoc tool

`/path/to/pdoc --html ModuleName`

or the complicated and fully featured sphinx (too complicated for a single command

`sphinx-apidoc ModuleName` to generate a default project

and `make`/`make.bat` to run it )

They are also useful print help in repl (with `help(obj)` or `obj?` in IPython)

Also in python comments are everything after a hash # till end of line.

Non assigned Literal strings in python are just literal objects not comments.

If they are the first thing in a class/function they become the class/function/method __doc__ attribute.

If they aren't they have no use but are simply created and then garbage collected because there are no references pointing to them(cpython the default python implementation uses reference counting and the occasional cleanup of unreachable cycles so it would be deleted right after creation). Its the same with literal numbers or dictionaries.

    def a():
        5
        []
        "whoop de do"
is a legal (and totally pointless) python function that will do nothing(other then allocate then cleanup some objects).

Re: Zig 0.4.0 Released

#136
post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah, one of those USENET posts. Except for when I write Assembly, the last time I used raw goto on an high level language, my MS-DOS 5.0 box was still relatively new. System.exit was always a thing to avoid namespace clashes and since Delphi 2009, you could have used System.exit(value) instead. Next time better read the docs. Regarding strings, you mean like 8 bit, 16 bit, wchar_t, DBCS, GString and many others used a…

> System.exit was always a thing Do you suggest I should use System.exit everywhere (even though all the code you find on the net uses just "exit")? Just to be sure that Delphi will never ever choose the wrong function to call WHICH IT SHOULD NEVER HAVE DONE IN THE FIRST PLACE OMG IT'S TOO FRIGGING COMPLICATED PLEASE DELPHI APPLY SOME COMMON SENSE. It's beyond me why I should write a function call and incur symbol re…

I could go on, but I don't miss the bygone USENET C vs Pascal flamewars, so let's leave it here.

Re: Zig 0.4.0 Released

#137
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well you learn to appreciate the value of RAII and exception working on high-availability software. It's almost impossible to have correct error paths and deinitialization without. I'm very doubtful the new crop of languages without exceptions and RAII actually care about correctness in the wild. Better than template without uniform representation? template is just copy-paste you don't _have_ to use it. Same remark f…

I've been writing C++ code since around '98, and have only recently moved back to mostly C. To be honest, features in C++ that I thought are a "must have" are actually a variant of Stockholm Syndrome, after a little while (a few weeks to months) one realizes that the world would keep turning without C++ ;)

None of my competitors use a language from the 70's.

Re: Zig 0.4.0 Released

#138
post #114
post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yes they are, UWP is the future of Windows APIs since Windows 8, like it or not. Well, i don't, but my two main gripes is that it seems to be an evolution of WPF which i never liked and that it is tied to a more locked down mobile-like approach that i abhor. > Win32 is slowly being migrated into sandbox model with each Windows 10 release What are you talking about? > and hasn't seen any big update since Vista. I'd…

I am talking about MSIX and the sandbox evolution model from Project Centiped, with the new Win32 project format for store deployments. Based on COM, and UWP, which is nothing more than a saner COM, now being internally widespread via C++/WinRT adoption.

That is for store stuff though, not Win32 itself and the vast majority of applications are not written for the store nor distributed through it (some do use it as a secondary means of distribution but from what i've heard the limitations are not worth it and the store itself is bad from a UX perspective).

Re: Zig 0.4.0 Released

#139
post #138
post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am talking about MSIX and the sandbox evolution model from Project Centiped, with the new Win32 project format for store deployments. Based on COM, and UWP, which is nothing more than a saner COM, now being internally widespread via C++/WinRT adoption.

That is for store stuff though, not Win32 itself and the vast majority of applications are not written for the store nor distributed through it (some do use it as a secondary means of distribution but from what i've heard the limitations are not worth it and the store itself is bad from a UX perspective).

Win32 is going into the store, that is the whole point of MSIX.

Re: Zig 0.4.0 Released

#140
post #59

I have one criticism: although zig has advertised very early on an amazing array of targets (probably taken from clang/llvm itself), some of the most esoteric ones have never worked for me, like powerpc (32bit) and MIPS. The blame is not entirely in zig but also in LLVM. It would be more fair to not even mention them as supported _at all_, or at the very least to document them as Tier 4.

I made that mistake before and I apologize for that. For this release cycle, I went through and tested creating a simple object file for all the targets, when categorizing them into tiers. So I think that if you try powerpc (32bit) and MIPS again you will find that they work now (probably because of LLVM improvements). If that is not the case, that is a bug and I would like to know about it.

I'll file some bug report. Because I've tried to build a plain hello_world.c for ppc (without using stdio even) and encountered issues with libunwind (had to fix the assembler syntax which apparently does not work anymore with modern llvm) and both musl and gnu libc were both complaining and could not be build.
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