Congress Is About to Ban the US Government from Offering Free Online Tax Filing • Hacker News Board

Re: Congress Is About to Ban the US Government from Offering Free Online Tax Filing

#311

Post by fattire » Wed, Apr 10, 2019, 2:00 AM UTC

Dig1t wrote: post #303

mattferderer wrote: post #265

If I read this right, you can still use the free service the IRS provides if you make less than $66,000. Has anyone used Turbo Tax or H&R "free" versions to file? I can't use them & last time I tried they charged you to submit your taxes electronically but otherwise it was simple & easy. I also know many cities offer services to help people file simple taxes for free. I believe this bill also states the IRS cannot se…

This is definitely a nuanced issue, and some people in this thread are being alarmist. Another legitimate issue that many people cite is that by creating a system whereby people can just click a button to pay their taxes is that it can cause people to pay more taxes in general by not fighting for every deduction that they can. People are complacent, and if they are told by the government that they owe some dollar fig…

So wait. Your defense of being forced to pay $$$ to a third party company to data mine your info in a convoluted, frustrating and expensive process rather than using a free, simple, fast service is that maybe possibly it will be SO convenient and friendly that some people will elect not to bother "fighting for every deduction that they can"?

https://www.npr.org/player/embed/708195702/709698927

Re: Congress Is About to Ban the US Government from Offering Free Online Tax Filing

#312

Post by jorblumesea » Wed, Apr 10, 2019, 2:01 AM UTC

Why do regular citizens even file their taxes in the first place? The IRS has everything they need, from W2 to financial statements from brokerages. All of this filing is required by law anyways. Do it for me and send me a bill or refund.

Re: Congress Is About to Ban the US Government from Offering Free Online Tax Filing

#313

Post by mrhappyunhappy » Wed, Apr 10, 2019, 2:01 AM UTC

Dig1t wrote: post #303

mattferderer wrote: post #265

If I read this right, you can still use the free service the IRS provides if you make less than $66,000. Has anyone used Turbo Tax or H&R "free" versions to file? I can't use them & last time I tried they charged you to submit your taxes electronically but otherwise it was simple & easy. I also know many cities offer services to help people file simple taxes for free. I believe this bill also states the IRS cannot se…

This is definitely a nuanced issue, and some people in this thread are being alarmist. Another legitimate issue that many people cite is that by creating a system whereby people can just click a button to pay their taxes is that it can cause people to pay more taxes in general by not fighting for every deduction that they can. People are complacent, and if they are told by the government that they owe some dollar fig…

Lazy, really? The average person has enough crap to worry about to figure out tax forms. We shouldn’t require effort when much of the process can be automated.

Re: Congress Is About to Ban the US Government from Offering Free Online Tax Filing

#314

Post by l4yao » Wed, Apr 10, 2019, 2:01 AM UTC

valleyjo wrote: post #220

Every time I pay for TurboTax I hate them even more for lobbying for this type of legislation.

The copy on their product pages is also incredibly deceptive. Buying "Intuit TurboTax Deluxe 2018, Federal with State + Efile" means only the Federal Efile is included, and additional charges are involved with a state E-file. People should be filing complaints with the FTC

Re: Congress Is About to Ban the US Government from Offering Free Online Tax Filing

#315

Post by johnsimer » Wed, Apr 10, 2019, 2:02 AM UTC

rootusrootus wrote: post #255

diminoten wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really, no! Most national elections sure, but I think most congressional races aren't nearly as expensive.

As of a few years ago, the average cost for a winning campaign for the House of Representatives was about $1.5M. The average cost for a winning Senate campaign was a bit over $10M.

Wow, so this means someone could theoretically buy out the House for <$1b?

Re: Congress Is About to Ban the US Government from Offering Free Online Tax Filing

#316

Post by GalacticDomin8r » Wed, Apr 10, 2019, 2:03 AM UTC

valleyjo wrote: post #220

Every time I pay for TurboTax I hate them even more for lobbying for this type of legislation.

Credit Karma's "free" tax return service has been a surprising lack of unpleasantness. Other than having to a bit of manual copy/paste for certain income, it's a breeze for my relatively uncomplex return.

I'm not exactly certain what they are getting by providing this info except advertising for more CC and loans. One of which I used and reduced my auto loan rate(this was also to get it out of Wells Fargo's books).

Re: Congress Is About to Ban the US Government from Offering Free Online Tax Filing

#317

Post by Dig1t » Wed, Apr 10, 2019, 2:05 AM UTC

Calloggs wrote: post #298

Planet Money covered tax filing a few years ago and visited it again recently: https://www.npr.org/templates/transcript/transcript.php?stor... My understanding is that the main opposition appears to be (1) the tax preparation lobby to protect their business interests and (2) anti-tax activists that believe that making people calculate their own taxes will make them more aware of how much they are paying in taxes. The…

Yes, you're right that people in that camp are unlikely to review their tax filings from their 3rd party. However there is an incentive for that 3rd part tax company to save their customer as much as they possibly can. The bigger the refund, the happier the customer and the more likely they are to come back next year and give you more money. In the Planet Money episode they spoke with the Republican dude and his biggest point was that his goal was to support a system where people paid as little tax as possible, and this current system we have is just that.

Re: Congress Is About to Ban the US Government from Offering Free Online Tax Filing

#318

Post by arcticbull » Wed, Apr 10, 2019, 2:06 AM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #308

arcticbull wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is exactly what you describe, the "war machine." Elections are in the public interest and should be solely publicly funded. Collect taxes for it, distribute it directly to candidates evenly, via some set model. You can look to Canada's system as a basis, although we do still allow some limited private contributions (which I disapprove of, but ~20% of total funding) [1]. That's all they should be allowed t…

The US is fundamentally more adversarial than other developed countries. Our political system reflects that. The Canadian way is one way to do it, but I don’t see why our way is fundamentally wrong. Also this focus on the “merits” is misguided. The US is too big and diverse for votes to correspond very well to actual policies. By the time you get all the stakeholders on board with something the final result won’t app…

Nothing about my proposed model is eliminates the adversarial nature of politics, or specifies whether people should vote along "merit" or on people/personality/party axis.

What it does is eliminate the ability of private individuals and companies to purchase time with a candidate. If you allow that, the candidate then will do what you want so they will get money for the next election cycle. It's just bribery with extra steps.

If they know they're going to get money for the next election regardless, no more or less than their opponent, they can focus on things that will improve the lives of Americans (their only donors now) and not private entities.

To your point, Canadians don't have to deal with much illegal immigration (except 18,000 [0.05% of the Canadian population] annually that cross into Canada from the US to escape the Trump administration with smugglers paid $4000USD+ to bring people up North. Many lose limbs and fingers and toes in the winter [1, 2] -- 1 in every 1000 Canadians is now an illegal immigrant who fled America). That's not really relevant to campaign finance, though, it's just horrifying.

[1] https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/jul/24/canada-vermo...

[2] https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-asylum-seek...

Re: Congress Is About to Ban the US Government from Offering Free Online Tax Filing

#319

Post by j16sdiz » Wed, Apr 10, 2019, 2:07 AM UTC

Dig1t wrote: post #303

mattferderer wrote: post #265

If I read this right, you can still use the free service the IRS provides if you make less than $66,000. Has anyone used Turbo Tax or H&R "free" versions to file? I can't use them & last time I tried they charged you to submit your taxes electronically but otherwise it was simple & easy. I also know many cities offer services to help people file simple taxes for free. I believe this bill also states the IRS cannot se…

This is definitely a nuanced issue, and some people in this thread are being alarmist. Another legitimate issue that many people cite is that by creating a system whereby people can just click a button to pay their taxes is that it can cause people to pay more taxes in general by not fighting for every deduction that they can. People are complacent, and if they are told by the government that they owe some dollar fig…

The "free" program provided by tax companies only do the simple tax part. Nobody save tax using those free programs.

Re: Congress Is About to Ban the US Government from Offering Free Online Tax Filing

#320

Post by wwweston » Wed, Apr 10, 2019, 2:08 AM UTC

DubiousPusher wrote: post #260

danielhughes wrote: post #226

I've often read headlines noting that the tax-prep lobby spends huge sums to preserve the status quo. But the numbers quoted in the article as evidence don't appear to support that claim. $6.6m seems low relative to these figures https://www.opensecrets.org/lobby/top.php?showYear=2018&inde... * *I can't vouch for this site or its data Relevant quote from the Tech Crunch article: "One reason why folks Congress could b…

The perrenial misunderstanding about lobbying in the US is that it's about money. It's not. It's about access. The money spent by lobbying firms is almost always in pursuit of that access. AKA buying a $10,000 plate at this donor dinner gets you a sit down with the Senator. Not only do lobbyists get more accessible they get more credibility. The lobbyists are high paid lawyers at respected firms. They have degrees fr…

Seconding this. I wish more people understood that "lobbying" is largely making a case to congressional staff, not another word for bribery.

And half the problem is that we need more lobbying, not less.

Donor access is an issue, but I think the larger problem that no one knows how to address with campaign finance laws of any kind is that someone with enough money can simply use that money to hire an army of persuasive people, much as you described.