Congress Is About to Ban the US Government from Offering Free Online Tax Filing • Hacker News Board

Re: Congress Is About to Ban the US Government from Offering Free Online Tax Filing

#251

Post by zdragnar » Wed, Apr 10, 2019, 1:22 AM UTC

maxxxxx wrote: post #229

PhantomGremlin wrote: post #222

I think this is a great idea. The risk of the IRS totally screwing up is just too high. And having an outside contractor do it is potentially even worse. E.g. the State of Oregon contracted with Oracle to create a health insurance marketplace. $200 million dollars later there was nothing but lawsuits. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cover_Oregon Let that sink in. Two hundred million dollars and they couldn't get a fuck…

The IRS would basically tell you what they already know. You still could file a return if you chose to do so. You could also buy TurboTax if you wanted to. I can’t see any downside to the taxpayer, only upside. E

The downside, allegedly, is that the IRS may not operate in good faith and take all of the appropriate deductions, etc. If the tax code were vastly simplified, I think all of the objections go away.

Re: Congress Is About to Ban the US Government from Offering Free Online Tax Filing

#252

Post by maxxxxx » Wed, Apr 10, 2019, 1:22 AM UTC

zdragnar wrote: post #251

maxxxxx wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The IRS would basically tell you what they already know. You still could file a return if you chose to do so. You could also buy TurboTax if you wanted to. I can’t see any downside to the taxpayer, only upside. E

The downside, allegedly, is that the IRS may not operate in good faith and take all of the appropriate deductions, etc. If the tax code were vastly simplified, I think all of the objections go away.

You still can change the return if you don’t agree.

Re: Congress Is About to Ban the US Government from Offering Free Online Tax Filing

#253

Post by gtirloni » Wed, Apr 10, 2019, 1:25 AM UTC

indemnity wrote: post #227

Meanwhile, in my little country (NZ), as a regular salaried worker, I only had to interact with the IRD in the years that I had a few side gigs in addition to my regular employment. Most years I don't interact with them at all. Don't even have to file. I guess in the USA they are worried the IRS will get it wrong, so on the chance they will, everyone has to follow really complicated processes, even if their tax affai…

In Brazil, our IRS provides the software for free and it gets better every year. There are some talks about not having to declare anything if your revenue situation is simple, in a few years.

I don't trust our government as much as the US population doesn't trust its government but this level of paranoia only leads to inefficiencies. Now instead of a central authority providing codified norms in software, you have countless tax filling vendors providing theirs, lobbying, etc.

Same with right to bear guns against the government. I guess it's the old shovels and gold digging, there's someone profitting from your hopes and dreams, or in this case, fears.

Re: Congress Is About to Ban the US Government from Offering Free Online Tax Filing

#254

Post by sharno » Wed, Apr 10, 2019, 1:26 AM UTC

The situation is even worse for foreigners in the US. As a non-resident I have to use websites with horrible UX, it's totally confusing and I have to gather all the documents and print the forms to mail it to the IRS.

Re: Congress Is About to Ban the US Government from Offering Free Online Tax Filing

#255

Post by rootusrootus » Wed, Apr 10, 2019, 1:26 AM UTC

diminoten wrote: post #240

chillacy wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

$16k to sell out? Don't these people raise millions?

Not really, no! Most national elections sure, but I think most congressional races aren't nearly as expensive.

As of a few years ago, the average cost for a winning campaign for the House of Representatives was about $1.5M. The average cost for a winning Senate campaign was a bit over $10M.

Re: Congress Is About to Ban the US Government from Offering Free Online Tax Filing

#256

Post by zdragnar » Wed, Apr 10, 2019, 1:27 AM UTC

peteretep wrote: post #243

PhantomGremlin wrote: post #222

I think this is a great idea. The risk of the IRS totally screwing up is just too high. And having an outside contractor do it is potentially even worse. E.g. the State of Oregon contracted with Oracle to create a health insurance marketplace. $200 million dollars later there was nothing but lawsuits. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cover_Oregon Let that sink in. Two hundred million dollars and they couldn't get a fuck…

> Does anyone seriously believe that the IRS would do better? It’s interesting to see the same arguments resurface as they do for healthcare. Most non-Americans here live in countries where salaried employees have almost zero contact with the country’s ex agency. No returns, no filing, it all just magically happens behind the scenes. So it’s kinda weird to hear Americans say “that’s impossible! How can you trust gove…

To be fair, American exceptionalism has little to do with the glories of our IRS.

Our tax code is also absurdly complicated- https://www.businessinsider.com/2014-how-many-pages-in-the-u... as an example. As I've said elsewhere, some of the most significant opposition to the IRS pre-filing taxes is trusting that it operates in good faith - or at least competently - and appropriate applies all deductions that a person is eligible for. Simplifying the tax code would go a long, long way to alleviating most people's concerns, I think.

Re: Congress Is About to Ban the US Government from Offering Free Online Tax Filing

#257

Post by beachy » Wed, Apr 10, 2019, 1:28 AM UTC

peteretep wrote: post #243

PhantomGremlin wrote: post #222

I think this is a great idea. The risk of the IRS totally screwing up is just too high. And having an outside contractor do it is potentially even worse. E.g. the State of Oregon contracted with Oracle to create a health insurance marketplace. $200 million dollars later there was nothing but lawsuits. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cover_Oregon Let that sink in. Two hundred million dollars and they couldn't get a fuck…

> Does anyone seriously believe that the IRS would do better? It’s interesting to see the same arguments resurface as they do for healthcare. Most non-Americans here live in countries where salaried employees have almost zero contact with the country’s ex agency. No returns, no filing, it all just magically happens behind the scenes. So it’s kinda weird to hear Americans say “that’s impossible! How can you trust gove…

American tax is significantly more complex than other countries - I would guess more than any other country - due to challenges such as county + state + federal taxes and interactions between them.

Source: worked on a payroll system that had to be heavily rearchitected when we tried to deploy it in the US.

Re: Congress Is About to Ban the US Government from Offering Free Online Tax Filing

#258

Post by JudgeWapner » Wed, Apr 10, 2019, 1:28 AM UTC

internet_user wrote: post #235

Would be even nicer if taxpayers would have to remit taxes on their own, instead of automatic deductions by the employer. Preferably, they'd have to count paper bills with their own hands, savoring each one for just a moment, before handing it over to the government.

that would be so nice, wouldn't it? Millions of people prosecuted for tax fraud, because they had to choose between paying the gov later or paying for food/rent/healthcare NOW.

Re: Congress Is About to Ban the US Government from Offering Free Online Tax Filing

#259

Post by chrisseaton » Wed, Apr 10, 2019, 1:28 AM UTC

technofiend wrote: post #246

valleyjo wrote: post #220

Every time I pay for TurboTax I hate them even more for lobbying for this type of legislation.

Have you considered any alternatives? I use taxcut but have used sites in the past like taxbrain.

Can you pay an accountant to do your taxes instead? I do that in the UK and they cost less than the prices I see online for US tax software. I just give him a pile of pay slips and receipts and he does whatever he needs to do to fill things in.

Re: Congress Is About to Ban the US Government from Offering Free Online Tax Filing

#260

Post by DubiousPusher » Wed, Apr 10, 2019, 1:29 AM UTC

danielhughes wrote: post #226

I've often read headlines noting that the tax-prep lobby spends huge sums to preserve the status quo. But the numbers quoted in the article as evidence don't appear to support that claim. $6.6m seems low relative to these figures https://www.opensecrets.org/lobby/top.php?showYear=2018&inde... * *I can't vouch for this site or its data Relevant quote from the Tech Crunch article: "One reason why folks Congress could b…

The perrenial misunderstanding about lobbying in the US is that it's about money. It's not. It's about access. The money spent by lobbying firms is almost always in pursuit of that access. AKA buying a $10,000 plate at this donor dinner gets you a sit down with the Senator.

Not only do lobbyists get more accessible they get more credibility. The lobbyists are high paid lawyers at respected firms. They have degrees from respected schools. They have worked on the issue at discussion at lemgth. So when citizens are stacked up against these people they seem comparatively crankish.

This provision isn't in the bill because Intuit bribed someone. It's because that 6.6 million bought a lot of sit downs with committee members. Sit downs in which lobbyists told a convincing story of how it would actually be better for everyone of the IRS couldn't do this. Honestly they probably made some process argument for this. Something like it would get challenged in court anyway and be a big waste of money. Or about how you should make it illegal so the Executive Branch won't do it on their own and they'll have to take congressional input. And the lobbyist almost certainly believes whatever line their feeding the politicians.

It's like most broken things in life. No one is evil stuff just breaks.