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Congress Is About to Ban the US Government from Offering Free Online Tax Filing

propublica.org

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Re: Congress Is About to Ban the US Government from Offering Free Online Tax Filing

#241

Post by lacey »

PhantomGremlin wrote: post #222

I think this is a great idea. The risk of the IRS totally screwing up is just too high. And having an outside contractor do it is potentially even worse. E.g. the State of Oregon contracted with Oracle to create a health insurance marketplace. $200 million dollars later there was nothing but lawsuits. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cover_Oregon Let that sink in. Two hundred million dollars and they couldn't get a fuck…

This sort of argument comes up all the time, claiming governments somehow screw everything up but private industry has some sort of amazing track record at producing value.

There’s a continuous stream of evidence to the contrary, particularly if you’ve ever worked for large companies and seen the kind of wasted resources that go toward pet projects and other high value items that fail miserably.

The difference of course is that one costs tax payers whereas the other costs shareholders, and in one case (government and tax payers) there is some hope of oversight and accountability. If shareholders actually knew about this sort of waste I am not sure they would ultimately care because they may chalk it up to the cost of doing business.

Re: Congress Is About to Ban the US Government from Offering Free Online Tax Filing

#242

Post by lysp »

indemnity wrote: post #227

Meanwhile, in my little country (NZ), as a regular salaried worker, I only had to interact with the IRD in the years that I had a few side gigs in addition to my regular employment. Most years I don't interact with them at all. Don't even have to file. I guess in the USA they are worried the IRS will get it wrong, so on the chance they will, everyone has to follow really complicated processes, even if their tax affai…

Being your close neighbour - how do you handle work related deductions. ie. IT equipment?

Re: Congress Is About to Ban the US Government from Offering Free Online Tax Filing

#243

Post by peteretep »

PhantomGremlin wrote: post #222

I think this is a great idea. The risk of the IRS totally screwing up is just too high. And having an outside contractor do it is potentially even worse. E.g. the State of Oregon contracted with Oracle to create a health insurance marketplace. $200 million dollars later there was nothing but lawsuits. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cover_Oregon Let that sink in. Two hundred million dollars and they couldn't get a fuck…

> Does anyone seriously believe that the IRS would do better?

It’s interesting to see the same arguments resurface as they do for healthcare.

Most non-Americans here live in countries where salaried employees have almost zero contact with the country’s ex agency. No returns, no filing, it all just magically happens behind the scenes.

So it’s kinda weird to hear Americans say “that’s impossible! How can you trust government?!”.

The worst thing about American exceptionalism is that it blinkers Americans from things that are not only done better by some other countries, but also the things that literally every other rich country in the world manages.

Re: Congress Is About to Ban the US Government from Offering Free Online Tax Filing

#244

Post by zdragnar »

PhantomGremlin wrote: post #222

I think this is a great idea. The risk of the IRS totally screwing up is just too high. And having an outside contractor do it is potentially even worse. E.g. the State of Oregon contracted with Oracle to create a health insurance marketplace. $200 million dollars later there was nothing but lawsuits. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cover_Oregon Let that sink in. Two hundred million dollars and they couldn't get a fuck…

I don't think the IRS or government hires worse people than, say, TurboTax. However, the procurement process for contracting the work is a byzantine nightmare, of which companies who are management and administrative heavy are the only ones who can possibly compete.

The net result is you have systems being put together using objectively bad processes and whose outcomes are guaranteed to be more expensive and less likely to work as intended.

A former employer of mine was a small startup in the intelligence analysis space, and had a product that generated a lot of interest in various government circles, as it solved some problems better than what they were currently using. The red tape to actually get any sort of contract approved was so tough to get through the owner seriously contemplated hiring a company whose sole purpose was helping other companies negotiate said red tape.

In the end, they pivoted to the commercial space.

To bring this back to the original point: I would love to have a super-simple tax system that didn't require paying third parties to file for me to make sure that I filled everything out correctly, and leveraged the tax code to best fit my circumstances. However, I do not have much faith that such a thing will come about anytime soon... once bitten, twice shy, that sort of thing.

Re: Congress Is About to Ban the US Government from Offering Free Online Tax Filing

#245

Post by x3n0ph3n3 »

internet_user wrote: post #235

Would be even nicer if taxpayers would have to remit taxes on their own, instead of automatic deductions by the employer. Preferably, they'd have to count paper bills with their own hands, savoring each one for just a moment, before handing it over to the government.

I've often lamented a system that makes people feel good about getting back money that was already theirs (without interest) and calling it free money.

Re: Congress Is About to Ban the US Government from Offering Free Online Tax Filing

#247

Post by rogerkirkness »

The easier it is the file taxes, the closer you get to a direct link to your bank account where you "don't have to think about it". Affordances and friction can be good. And if you (actually) believe in equality, those affordances should apply to all.

Re: Congress Is About to Ban the US Government from Offering Free Online Tax Filing

#248

Post by acdha »

Nikbul wrote: post #219

If you follow down the original on ProPublica and find comments there, you will see that there was no such provision. And the one that actually referencing IRS is says that IRS should continue to cooperate with private sector to make free tax filing and must maintain free portal. I would like to see actual provision to which this website referencing, otherwise it is click bait.

When a highly-respected group of reporters like ProPublica run a story, it’s reasonable to assume they’ve done more research than the average commenter. In this case:

https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/house-bill/1957...

> The Secretary of the Treasury, or the Secretary’s delegate, shall continue to operate the IRS Free File Program as established by the Internal Revenue Service and published in the Federal Register on November 4, 2002 (67 Fed. Reg. 67247), including any subsequent agreements and governing rules established pursuant thereto.

https://www.govinfo.gov/app/details/FR-2002-11-04/02-27909/s...

> during its term, the IRS will not compete with the private sector by providing free on-line tax preparation and filing services to taxpayers

Re: Congress Is About to Ban the US Government from Offering Free Online Tax Filing

#250

Post by TomMckenny »

danielhughes wrote: post #226

I've often read headlines noting that the tax-prep lobby spends huge sums to preserve the status quo. But the numbers quoted in the article as evidence don't appear to support that claim. $6.6m seems low relative to these figures https://www.opensecrets.org/lobby/top.php?showYear=2018&inde... * *I can't vouch for this site or its data Relevant quote from the Tech Crunch article: "One reason why folks Congress could b…

What they receive is only part of the calculation.

What your opponent will receive in the next election or primary is a bigger issue. And that implied stick is much cheaper than giving out carrots all the time.

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