>The converse to the statement above is also true: if prices form a set of probabilities, then they are consistent. Since Silver’s forecasts begin with probability models, it’s safe to assume they obey all the rules, including Bayes’, and would be arbitrage-free. I don't believe this is correct. You can lose money to arbitrage even with a calibrated model if you ignore data someone else has, or include random noise s…
Nassim Talebs case against Nate Silver is bad math
101–110 of 213 posts
Re: Nassim Talebs case against Nate Silver is bad math
#102Earlier quoted context omitted.
Loads of people criticized Silver for not having "predicted" Trump's electoral victory. I imagine Silver's language was trying to hand-hold people to an understanding that even 20% probability events happen 1 out of 5 times. With so many people trying to twist and spin every headline, prediction, number, I appreciate Silver's attempt to make a reasonable guess with transparent methodologies.
It is worth noting that 538 doesn't keep a historical record of their predictions, making it difficult to really see how they predict outcomes coming up to a conclusion. You can only see the latest/final prediction. 538 also predicted lower chances of victory in the weeks and months leading up to that, then adjusted it on election day vanishing away their earlier guesses. This isn't wrong on the face of it, but peopl…
Re: Nassim Talebs case against Nate Silver is bad math
#103What I'm addressing here is Taleb's claim that Silver's probabilities would allow for arbitrage (i.e., riskless profit, not just profit on average) if turned into betting prices. This is in the sense of arbitrage-through-time, buying low and then selling high. As I discussed in the piece, an old argument due to de Finetti says that if prices are arbitrage-free they must satisfy the equations of probability, meaning you can in some sense think of the price as giving a probability of the outcome. For time-dynamic arbitrage the relevant equation is Bayes' Theorem. All I meant by my statement above is that the converse to de Finetti's argument is also true, trivially. If prices obey the equations of probability they are automatically arbitrage-free. And since Silver's probabilities begin life as probabilities, they satisfy all the relevant equations (one would expect).
Technically, the way we'd express this in modern finance is through the Fundamental Theorem of Asset Pricing, which says a (complete) market is arbitrage-free if and only if there exists an equivalent measure under which asset prices are martingales. Silver's probabilities are necessarily martingales, just because of the way conditional probability math works, so unless Taleb can claim that his and Silver's probabilities aren't equivalent, meaning they disagree on what events have probability zero, then there is no chance of arbitrage. That's just the mathy way of saying the same thing I said in the post.
There are many other possible errors Silver could be making, and many other possible criticisms Taleb could have made but did not. In this case he wrote a paper claiming a mathematical result that just isn't true.
Hope that's helpful!
Re: Nassim Talebs case against Nate Silver is bad math
#104Earlier quoted context omitted.
So what you're saying, I guess, is that Silver, by dint of making point probability predictions, is offering a two-sided market with infinite liquidity trading at that value for a binary option, and you could make arbitrage gains by trading off of volatility? I'm having a fair bit of trouble picking up that from either Taleb's or Clayton's article, but let's say that it's a fair assessment. Is the complaint that the…
Well obviously Silver isn't actually offering to bet at those odds. But complaining that a model is incorrect because it enables arbitrage is a standard complaint, it's how you can prove all non-Bayesian models are irrational. That doesn't mean all Bayesian ones automatically pass the test though. Error bars and spreads are already outside the Bayesian paradigm, which demands a single number.
> It's how you can prove all non-Bayesian models are irrational
Can you expand or link?
> Error bars and spreads are already outside the Bayesian paradigm, which demands a single number
Not following at all. What do you mean?
Re: Nassim Talebs case against Nate Silver is bad math
#105Earlier quoted context omitted.
That seems like a pretty big difference to gloss over. Why are they publishing probabilities for if the event were to happen today? The event isn't happening today!
They don't exactly gloss over it. They have tons of articles explaining it, but of course the average reader is just going to see the probabilities and run with that, and 538 does have some responsibility to actively explain things upfront in their UI, which I don't think they do a good job at. > Why are they publishing probabilities for if the event were to happen today? The event isn't happening today! My guess is…
The putative “average reader” who does so will see the default view, which is a forecast, not the nowcast, which you must actively shift to in order to see.
> and 538 does have some responsibility to actively explain things upfront in their UI,
Like, on the view selector that you have to use to choose the nowcast instead of the default forecast, where the nowcast is described as “Now-cast / Who would win the election if it were held today”.
I think they have that covered.
Re: Nassim Talebs case against Nate Silver is bad math
#106Taleb's response to this article: https://twitter.com/nntaleb/status/1115684446081040386
Since Taleb delights in make his mathematical writing as opaque as possible, it's a useful read in just to know exactly the claims that Taleb is making in his paper.
Re: Nassim Talebs case against Nate Silver is bad math
#107From a business perspective, the volatility of Silver's models seem like a feature - they enhance the drama / sensationalism of election coverage. One week, he's telling me candidate X will likely win, the next week it's candidate Y, and I'm on the edge of my seat. If Silver really believed these probabilities were correct, he should be willing make bets with these odds, otherwise his incentives are distorted.
In fact, perhaps his entire livelihood.
Re: Nassim Talebs case against Nate Silver is bad math
#108Earlier quoted context omitted.
So what you're saying, I guess, is that Silver, by dint of making point probability predictions, is offering a two-sided market with infinite liquidity trading at that value for a binary option, and you could make arbitrage gains by trading off of volatility? I'm having a fair bit of trouble picking up that from either Taleb's or Clayton's article, but let's say that it's a fair assessment. Is the complaint that the…
Well obviously Silver isn't actually offering to bet at those odds. But complaining that a model is incorrect because it enables arbitrage is a standard complaint, it's how you can prove all non-Bayesian models are irrational. That doesn't mean all Bayesian ones automatically pass the test though. Error bars and spreads are already outside the Bayesian paradigm, which demands a single number.
Re: Nassim Talebs case against Nate Silver is bad math
#109Re: Nassim Talebs case against Nate Silver is bad math
#110Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well obviously Silver isn't actually offering to bet at those odds. But complaining that a model is incorrect because it enables arbitrage is a standard complaint, it's how you can prove all non-Bayesian models are irrational. That doesn't mean all Bayesian ones automatically pass the test though. Error bars and spreads are already outside the Bayesian paradigm, which demands a single number.
Curious about this. > It's how you can prove all non-Bayesian models are irrational Can you expand or link? > Error bars and spreads are already outside the Bayesian paradigm, which demands a single number Not following at all. What do you mean?
>Not following at all. What do you mean?
One assumption is that given a bet, you must choose to take a side of it. If you won't bet for something at X%, you must bet against it at 1-X%.