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Congress Is About to Ban the US Government from Offering Free Online Tax Filing

propublica.org

171–180 of 717 posts

Re: Congress Is About to Ban the US Government from Offering Free Online Tax Filing

#171
post #61

I'm self employed and had to explain to my kids why taxes in the US were so complicated and took hours to do over the weekend. There must be powerful forces at work because Republicans have touted a flat tax or a return the size of a postcard for decades but when they controlled all three branches of government couldn't get anywhere near enough votes to pass it. It's truly an abysmal system and I hope my kids don't h…

> There must be powerful forces at work because Republicans have touted a flat tax or a return the size of a postcard for decades but when they controlled all three branches of government couldn't get anywhere near enough votes to pass it

They don't actually try to pass a flat tax because it is not feasible to actually do a flat tax in a country like they US with such a wide range of incomes. Even with a low rate, there will be people poor enough that paying the tax is a major hardship. So every even remotely serious "flat" tax proposal has some cutoff and only applies to income above that cutoff.

But then it is not actually a flat tax. It is a progressive tax with two brackets. Once you get there, it is really hard to come up with a convincing argument that two brackets is better than more brackets.

If the calculation wouldn't mystify most taxpayers, what would probably be the most sound theoretically would be a continuous bracket structure.

The other reason they don't do it is that the flatness of the rate structure has pretty much nothing whatsoever to do with the complexity of a tax return. If you changed the rate structure from a progressive rate with several brackets to an actual flat rate, or a more realistic two bracket progressive system, that would shave about 1/4 of a page off the several thousand pages of the tax code and tax regulations.

The complexity of it is all in figuring out which income is taxable. Once you've got all the income classified into the various relevant tax categories, the actual calculations where you use the rate structure is trivial.

Re: Congress Is About to Ban the US Government from Offering Free Online Tax Filing

#172

One rather insidious thing about H&R Block's online tax filing website is that, once the hapless user has chosen to have a real human "tax pro" review their tax return (for an additional fee), the user cannot un-choose it! The website does not offer you that choice. Even worse, when the user calls the H&R Block help number, a computerized voice does offer the user the option to downgrade, but notes that it will have…

Is not sleazy. They have two systems but no export from one to the other and why should they? It's free. You build it for free.

No. It really is sleazy. I'm talking about a situation where the user is paying for the H&R service. This is a paying customer, not a free user.

This user then adds a tax pro review service but decides later that they do not want that add-on service. But now the user cannot remove that added-on service on the H&R website. The user calls in to an automated phone line which tells the user that, in order to downgrade, the system must clear out all of their data.

Re: Congress Is About to Ban the US Government from Offering Free Online Tax Filing

#173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I will say, vote with your dollars. If you don't like Intuit's lobbying, please don't feed the beast and use their services.

What are suitable alternatives? Aren't they the best in class, regardless of how shitty that class is?

Tax Act. And as far as "best in class" goes, I find Tax Act to be far less infuriating that that steaming pile of shite Intuit puts out. I would almost go so far as to say it's decent software.

As for the lobbying, I have some vague memory of jumping to Tax Act because of someone pointing out that they don't lobby. A cursory bit of searching didn't raise any red flags at the time.

Re: Congress Is About to Ban the US Government from Offering Free Online Tax Filing

#174
You know, I get the uproar about this, but I'd like to put one thought into your heads before you respond:

Imagine, as complicated as tax forms are, and as obtuse as the IRS instructions are compared to TurboTax.

Now imagine the government puts up a website for you to file your taxes.

Do you really want to use that? Do you think it will be as easy to use? Do you think you'll have a nice wizard to walk you through it? Will it be faster than TurboTax?

Now, a year or two after their site has come out, and TurboTax has seen a huge drop in revenue (they don't know it, but it's only temporary), they decide to shut it down because they can't compete with both free and "government guaranteed" even if the site sucks.

Will you be happy then?

Seriously - I get the frustration of the current situation, but if you've ever done it on paper and have anything other than the 1040EZ form, this should give you pause.

Re: Congress Is About to Ban the US Government from Offering Free Online Tax Filing

#175
post #7

What propublica left out: To be clear the Intuit’s of the world are not acting altruistically, however they’ve created an odd alliance with anti-tax advocates who 1. Think that any government provided system will favor the government over tax-payers and make it easier to sneak in stealth tax changes and 2. The anti-tax lobby cynically (and correctly) understands that in order to keep taxes unpopular, making them pain…

2. The anti-tax lobby cynically (and correctly) understands that in order to keep taxes unpopular, making them painful is useful.

If that's an example of their swift thinking, I'll be sure to vote against anyone that carries even a whiff of their ilk. Because if such a candidate could not see a distinction between taxes and the process of paying them, we're probably not going to get along intellectually, let alone politically.

Re: Congress Is About to Ban the US Government from Offering Free Online Tax Filing

#176
post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(in the US) I would trust the government provided tax-return software to provide the smallest refund possible. It will also take $50 billion and 3-4 years to develop, and it will be down from April 1st to May 7th due to overload on the system. Your confirmation emails won't come through, and the database will be hacked and all records leaked within the first 18 months of operation.

Then vote a better government.

Why do you believe voting works? Remember when people voted for BRexit?

Re: Congress Is About to Ban the US Government from Offering Free Online Tax Filing

#177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are suitable alternatives? Aren't they the best in class, regardless of how shitty that class is?

The pen. Seriously. I used TurboTax this year, and honestly I was underwhelmed, especially when it came to the state forms. It didn’t really seem like it did much, and the California form experience were full of obvious bugs. Questions with no context. (“Enter city 2”) Questions being given out of order. PDFs being viewed through a mail slot. PDF forms where the entry blanks and the entries would scroll at different…

I'm thinking about self-filing this year. Although, I'm really running down to the wire.

It's basically as easy as filing out a W2 if you're a full-time salaried employee with no deductions, right?

Re: Congress Is About to Ban the US Government from Offering Free Online Tax Filing

#178
post #174

You know, I get the uproar about this, but I'd like to put one thought into your heads before you respond: Imagine, as complicated as tax forms are, and as obtuse as the IRS instructions are compared to TurboTax. Now imagine the government puts up a website for you to file your taxes. Do you really want to use that? Do you think it will be as easy to use? Do you think you'll have a nice wizard to walk you through it?…

Then why crush the option? Let the market determine it. If Intuit's product is so much better then it will win.

Re: Congress Is About to Ban the US Government from Offering Free Online Tax Filing

#179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are suitable alternatives? Aren't they the best in class, regardless of how shitty that class is?

I have used Credit Karma Tax since it came out (I think this year was 3 years) and it has been a great product and is free for both federal and state filings. Doesn't support some more complex scenarios, notably partial year and multi-state returns (you can still file your Federal return with it, though). Edited to add additional details as to what isn't supported.

So rather than feed Intuit, you'll feed Google?

EDIT: Ignore this comment, poster threw ID-10T exception

Re: Congress Is About to Ban the US Government from Offering Free Online Tax Filing

#180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are suitable alternatives? Aren't they the best in class, regardless of how shitty that class is?

Tax Act. And as far as "best in class" goes, I find Tax Act to be far less infuriating that that steaming pile of shite Intuit puts out. I would almost go so far as to say it's decent software. As for the lobbying, I have some vague memory of jumping to Tax Act because of someone pointing out that they don't lobby. A cursory bit of searching didn't raise any red flags at the time.

Would be curious if anyone could confirm that Tax Act actually doesn't lobby for this kind of crap.
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