Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

BASIC Computer Games

vintage-basic.net

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 124 posts

Re: BASIC Computer Games

#81

Post by mntmoss »

jptoto wrote: post #53
bespoke_engnr wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really think there's something magical about beginners typing in whole projects by hand (instead of the modern copy-paste). It really helped me when I was getting started with programming. To me, it feels like typing each character manually cements the knowledge in there much deeper than 'oh, I think I understand what I'm copy/pasting.' Maybe that's a shallow truism by now, but I still see people struggling to lear…

That's a smart take. Even today when I'm learning something new I try to do as much physical typing as possible from the example because I feel like I learn it better.

The other day I had the thought of "all memory is muscle memory" - it's not literally true, but memorizing in an associated form builds up so many cues that it's worth applying to any study: do warm-ups and repetitions, speak, move, and think in sync.

Re: BASIC Computer Games

#82

Post by bluGill »

cr0sh wrote: post #67
bluGill wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of the lines I typed in where "2050 data 100,98,0,0,45,128,..." up to the maximum line length (256 character?) at which point it was "2060 data...." Nothing to learn there. I suppose I could look up each opcode and figure it out, but even then there were no names to guide me as to what anything means.

You were either typing in mostly game code (with a simple BASIC HEX ML loader), or were using a machine with a limited form of BASIC that didn't allow for easy graphics manipulation (the C=64 and VIC-20 were famous in this regard). While I recall doing the same on my machine (TRS-80 Color Computer) - it was usually to get functionality that was lacking otherwise. I recall having to type a ton of DATA statements for a…

I was probably typing in a program that was written in assembly language, and then the bytes were output so that I didn't have to type in the assembly code (which would be even more keystrokes with only limited additional ability to understand, not to mention everybody has BASIC, assemblers were rarer).

I was doing this on an Atari 400. There was plenty of power available from BASIC to get at the graphics and sound, but there wasn't the speed. BASIC was an interpreted language and so you had to drop to assembly to get enough speed for a large program to not feel slow.

Re: BASIC Computer Games

#83

Post by ddgflorida »

cr0sh wrote: post #61
jptoto wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nice! My Commodore PET had a tape cassette drive. It was SOO unreliable.

My first machine was a TRS-80 Color Computer 2 with a cassette tape drive; compared to the PET, due to the "generation difference" (probably in the encoding method?) - plus Radio Shack - it's cassette storage was actually really reliable. People are still pulling old software and data off of some of their old CoCo tapes, what little problems there are typically can be solved by dumping to digital file and editing in…

Same here - 16K Tandy Color Computer I from 1981-2. It was great for doing Numerical Analysis homework.

Re: BASIC Computer Games

#84

Post by hateful »

I had an Atari XE when I was 9. I used to write all sorts of games with it, starting with simple which way book type games and then moving on to 2 step animation and movement. I didn't have the optional floppy, so when I shut off the computer, my work was gone. I used to write the code in a notebook and have to type it in again. I used to keep it on and switch the TV back to TV and raise hell if my mom turned off the unit.

Then I moved on to a PC JR with Cartridge Basic and after that QuickBasic on Windows 3.1.

Fun times.

Re: BASIC Computer Games

#86

Post by allenu »

cr0sh wrote: post #69
sausage_gumbo wrote: post #13

all those gotos could cause some serious harm

Back then, you didn't have a choice. Most microcomputer BASICs did not have any other kind of "infinite" looping construct beyond a GOTO. FOR-NEXT was about the only other option. There wasn't a WHILE or a DO-UNTIL construct in those BASICs, with the exception of (IIRC) or the BASIC used in the MSX systems (which didn't see much action outside of Japan) and in BBC BASIC (it was probably the best BASIC out there along…

I think he was referencing a famous Dijkstra letter "GOTO Statement Considered Harmful".

Re: BASIC Computer Games

#87

Post by reaperducer »

CWuestefeld wrote: post #43
jptoto wrote: post #30

Dawww. I had this book when it came out and used to type the programs into my Commodore PET by hand! Boy does this bring back memories.

I had it too, but typed them into my Atari 800 - after which I'd save it to cassette tape.

I got my Commodore 64 for Christmas, and had NO storage until months later when I got a 1541 for my birthday.

Every time I turned the power off or wanted to try a different program I had to start from scratch.

Re: BASIC Computer Games

#88

Post by genzoman »

indentit wrote: post #14
mlukaszek wrote: post #7

No donkey.bas? :)

I guess Gorillas and Nibbles didn't come with that book from the article, but with MS-DOS, so to have it with the book would have been a waste of space as they were already present on most systems

The first "programming" I ever did was when we had computer day in third day, I bet a kid I could get to a higher level of Nibbles than he could. I read a BASIC book from the library, found the script and changed the START_LEVEL variable from 1 to 100. 20 some years later, I write code for a living.

Re: BASIC Computer Games

#89

Post by manifestsilence »

bespoke_engnr wrote: post #32
jptoto wrote: post #30

Dawww. I had this book when it came out and used to type the programs into my Commodore PET by hand! Boy does this bring back memories.

I really think there's something magical about beginners typing in whole projects by hand (instead of the modern copy-paste). It really helped me when I was getting started with programming. To me, it feels like typing each character manually cements the knowledge in there much deeper than 'oh, I think I understand what I'm copy/pasting.' Maybe that's a shallow truism by now, but I still see people struggling to lear…

Learn Python the Hard Way is often blasted for adhering to that sentiment. I think it has value. I think LPtHW perhaps attracts ire first for other things, like a now dated bias towards python 2 over 3, but whenever I recommend it to beginners, people always get mad over its emphasis on memorization.

I get what they're saying (probably from dealing with too much rote school work in the past), programming is more about critical thinking than memory, but it really helps to have the core constructs memorized in a language. If you have to google "loops in python" every time, it's not going to go well.

Re: BASIC Computer Games

#90

Post by 0815test »

tsumnia wrote: post #76
NikkiA wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Typing in a program from a paper source forces you to think about each line you're entering, it's more than just a 'slow way to distribute a program', it's also a teaching exercise along the same lines as how writing your notes in class are part of the learning exercise that reinforces your mental model of the subject.

Funny enough, this is my PhD research. Granted, I do agree that the examples should be more meaningful; however, offering students worked examples as typing examples to better train them on syntax errors is the general feel.

> Funny enough, this is my PhD research.

Really, you type in codes/programs from paper printouts for your PhD? I knew that some programming communities in academia still clung to old habits and way of doing things, but not like that!

Post reply on HN