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Shenmue's Much-Hated Forklifts Feel Revolutionary Today

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Re: Shenmue's Much-Hated Forklifts Feel Revolutionary Today

#31

Post by neetodavid »

whywhywhywhy wrote: post #7

Loved the virtual flaneur aspect of this game, just wandering around the neighborhood, checking out shops, buying things, talking to people, heading home in the evening were so enjoyable. My Summer Car is the only modern game that comes to mind that captures the same kind of experience for me, if anyone has any other suggestions I'd love to hear them.

"Diaries of a Spaceport Janitor" had this for me. It also made me feel like I was getting good at just finding my way around the city. Knowing alleyway shortcuts, where different shops are, or where to find a cheap meal.

Plus each day of the week has its own different mood / street festivals / music. Lots to love in that game.

Re: Shenmue's Much-Hated Forklifts Feel Revolutionary Today

#32

Post by 83457 »

b_tterc_p wrote: post #5

I was too stupid to do drive the forklift when I played this as a kid. Maybe I was missing something obvious but I recall getting stuck in the game and just doing my forklift job so poorly that I was not allowed to advance for months of in game time.

I recall the controls took some getting used to. I believe the left/right controls actually started movement of a slow turning wheel on the forklift that moved at a constant rate that then turned the wheels, as opposed to direct/real-time input like racing games.

Re: Shenmue's Much-Hated Forklifts Feel Revolutionary Today

#33

Post by billfruit »

tdb7893 wrote: post #15
ekianjo wrote: post #4

Never hated the forklift. A claim without basis, common on clickbaity Kotaku.

A ton of other people hated it though. Is there a reason people hate Kotaku so much? It's always seemed like a pretty normal game site to me except for the fact it leans a little more liberal on social issues.

Kotaku is very partisan in its Nintendo fanboyism. In their view Nintendo can't do anything wrong, where as the slightest hint of a mistake from Valve or Sega or others, they pounce upon with extreme outrage. Also they kind of patronizingly fetishize Japanese gaming culture, over others. They'll have pages and pages of articles about even the most obscure Pokemon game releases, while they give lesser coverage of a Total War game.

Note to mention the click-bait and hyperbole laden writing style.

Re: Shenmue's Much-Hated Forklifts Feel Revolutionary Today

#34

Post by adamnemecek »

whywhywhywhy wrote: post #7

Loved the virtual flaneur aspect of this game, just wandering around the neighborhood, checking out shops, buying things, talking to people, heading home in the evening were so enjoyable. My Summer Car is the only modern game that comes to mind that captures the same kind of experience for me, if anyone has any other suggestions I'd love to hear them.

Kingdom Come: Deliverance made me feel this way. The Steam rating does it no justice, it’s a 9/10 game.

Re: Shenmue's Much-Hated Forklifts Feel Revolutionary Today

#35

Post by bgeeek »

jmkd wrote: post #29

Forklifts were a highlight for me. When you took Ryu to the arcade to play Space Harrier etc there's a well-established if indirect teasing of the fourth wall. After spending in-game money to beat your in-game (in-game) high score, you begin to ask yourself what on earth you are doing. When Ryu gets the job as the forklift driver this same question leads directly to a beautifully uncomfortable awareness of your self,…

I was wracking my brain trying to think of early '80s job-simulator games, mostly because there aren't many at all. I'm not sure that I'd class Trashman, Paperboy or Tapper (fond of all 3 btw) as job-simulators. Other than driving and flightsims, I can't think of any from the early '80s :) Late '80s perhaps.

Re: Shenmue's Much-Hated Forklifts Feel Revolutionary Today

#36

Post by livueta »

tdb7893 wrote: post #15
ekianjo wrote: post #4

Never hated the forklift. A claim without basis, common on clickbaity Kotaku.

A ton of other people hated it though. Is there a reason people hate Kotaku so much? It's always seemed like a pretty normal game site to me except for the fact it leans a little more liberal on social issues.

Social issues definitely seem like part of it now, but Kotaku was disliked in hardcore communities well before Gamergate or any of that other nonsense. My recollections of late-2000s Kotaku are similar to how I feel today about a lot of tech publications where personal expertise in their subject area makes it painfully obvious that they don't really know what they're talking about.

When you spend hundreds to thousands of hours mastering a game and immersing yourself in the culture surrounding it, an article on "your" game, unless it's written by someone as keyed-in to the meta as you are, is likely to come off as a series of poorly informed hot takes. In other words, generalist journalists frequently have a hard time developing the level of experience in a particular area necessary to write about it in such a way that's not laughable to the "experts". This effect is particularly bad in video games, where the amount of rabbit holes you can pour yourself into is practically uncountable. Everyone's an expert on something, and it only takes one crappy article on your pet game to destroy your confidence in anything that outlet produces, even if you lack the experience to see the lie in each and every piece.

Re: Shenmue's Much-Hated Forklifts Feel Revolutionary Today

#37

Post by JohnBooty »

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #9
whywhywhywhy wrote: post #7

Loved the virtual flaneur aspect of this game, just wandering around the neighborhood, checking out shops, buying things, talking to people, heading home in the evening were so enjoyable. My Summer Car is the only modern game that comes to mind that captures the same kind of experience for me, if anyone has any other suggestions I'd love to hear them.

Persona 4 has a lot of this. Very strong sense of place—you feel bonded to the town and the people.

It really did establish a strong sense of place. And it was a somewhat unique place, too - a "boring" and unremarkable suburb. Many (most?) of us grew up someplace similar, but few games are set in such places because of the lack of coolness.

Also: I can't look at a retail display of TVs without thinking of that game and hearing the department store jingle!

Re: Shenmue's Much-Hated Forklifts Feel Revolutionary Today

#39

Post by JohnBooty »

livueta wrote: post #36
tdb7893 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A ton of other people hated it though. Is there a reason people hate Kotaku so much? It's always seemed like a pretty normal game site to me except for the fact it leans a little more liberal on social issues.

Social issues definitely seem like part of it now, but Kotaku was disliked in hardcore communities well before Gamergate or any of that other nonsense. My recollections of late-2000s Kotaku are similar to how I feel today about a lot of tech publications where personal expertise in their subject area makes it painfully obvious that they don't really know what they're talking about. When you spend hundreds to thousand…

I'm torn here.

On one hand, I understand what you're saying. For example, I'm a big fan of Evangelion, and there's a decent amount of meta context to be aware about when going into that series.

On the other hand, I think we need fresh (and even naive) looks at these older works. Shenmue, Evangelion, etc -- they should be continually reevaluated and challenged. That's the difference between a living fandom and an echo chamber of folks smelling their own farts.

Re: Shenmue's Much-Hated Forklifts Feel Revolutionary Today

#40

Post by vertline3 »

FactolSarin wrote: post #16
vertline3 wrote: post #3

Who hated forklift driving? Also lots of spoilers here.

The game is 20 years old. I think the spoiler warning period has lapsed.

I don't think so personally, because the game is something that should be experienced. Just reading about it, is like reading about food.

I'm not saying don't read it, I'm saying if you want to play the game, consider playing it without preconceptions.

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