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San Francisco’s Slow-Motion Suicide

nationalreview.com

241–250 of 312 posts

Re: San Francisco’s Slow-Motion Suicide

#241

Having lived in SF for a number of years now, I 100% agree that SF is just dystopian as hell. Trash everywhere downtown, human feces/needles/smell of urine all over downtown & SOMA, depressing mix of aggressive and zombie-like homeless, very few kids/families, very few minorities (especially African-Americans), barely functioning public transportation system, high rents forcing six-figure earners to live with 2 roomm…

How is it that so much aggressive political rhetoric related to race and the tech industry is coming from this area if there are very few African Americans there in the first place? I live in Atlanta where the minority population is much higher all around and I don't get the sense at all that there's rampant racism or discrimination. Is this problem unique to the Bay Area or is this largely white guilt?

I'd attribute it to two or three key factors:

1. Large Asian population. The SF companies I've worked at often had 30-45% Asian workforce. In theory this should be a good thing as far as diversity goes (and I have had the privilege of learning from and getting to know people coming from very different societies on a personal level, most of them Asian). But for a variety of reasons I'm not going to dig into, Asians don't count as "diverse" anymore.

2. Overwhelmingly left leaning workforce means that the prevailing liberal attitudes are amplified and go largely unquestioned. This sometimes even manifests itself as the organized exclusion of those that don't harbor the same politics: https://www.fastcompany.com/3067152/lessons-in-techs-past-di...

3. Perhaps as a result of #2, many in the SF Bay area aren't exploring non-discriminatory explanations as to why there are few African Americans in Bay area tech companies. First off, the Black population is not very big in the Bay area. Less than 2% of mountain view's population is black. Overall the Bay area is 6.7% black, about half that of the country as a whole. Couple this with lower rates of educational attainment beyond high school (which is usually necessary for software development roles) and it's not hard to see how a lower black population in Bay area tech roles can happen even absent discrimination in hiring. But saying these things to my coworkers would probably adversely affect my career, so the prevailing narrative of discrimination in hiring is left unchallenged.

This results in some interesting behavior. Tech roles with lower barrier to entry like help desk support are now nearly entirely black, Hispanic, or female. We recently recategorized physical security as a "tech" role (ostensibly because physical security is an important part of infosec) and now easily 70%+ of our physical security staff is black. This has sort of backfired in a sense, the few black developers I know report being consistently mistaken for security or help desk personnel.

Re: San Francisco’s Slow-Motion Suicide

#242
post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't it normal to graduate college and move to another city for a job? I've never heard of anyone wanting to stick around the same city as their college friends before. Granted the Bay Area is a tech hub so that's a reason to stay if you're in the industry but living in a new city on your own is definitely an experience most people should have.

Only 25% of US adults have a bachelors degree. Of the 25% of those with bachelors degrees, the large majority come from regional public schools, think "Cal State Sacramento", or "Northern Illinois University". Graduates of these types of schools often grew up within 2 - 3 hours of their university, and after school the majority end up in the largest city within a 2 - 3 hour drive of their university. If you didn't ge…

That makes sense. I don't have a degree but my social and professional circles are from top schools and the like. I was missing the view that a lot of people go to university in the same town they grew up in (although I question if that's the case for SF/the valley).

Re: San Francisco’s Slow-Motion Suicide

#243
post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If everyone was racist we'd be living in apartheid. Frankly, there is no political coalition willing to push apartheid because a plurality of people aren't as racist as some people in this thread seem to think.

What if there was a system that achieved the same effect as apartheid, without requiring an actual apartheid law? Do you think that would be better or worse?

Well that's certainly the intent of some bad policies passed under cover. But generally speaking if you shine a light to those policies most people will be against them.

Re: San Francisco’s Slow-Motion Suicide

#244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm from the south, lived all over in urban and rural areas. Urban areas were the most racist (seemingly out of fear in most instances) by far. It's not overt either; the passive-aggressive stuff is real. Rural area racists seemed to be just uneducated/full of bad info on the most part, but also more vocal. I've also encountered more racists in the northeast than anywhere else (maybe they think I am too because of my…

> Urban areas were the most racist This the most unexceptional, unoriginal wrong talking point that always comes up in these conversations. I've heard it my entire life growing up in the south, and it constantly betrays the OP's actual experiences when dealing with this matter. It's a southern apology. And a really dumb one at that, fueled by a bitter "us vs. them" mentality ripe everywhere in the south. There is abs…

I'd be hesitant to dismiss this outright. While urban areas don't have as strong a history of explicit racism, a lot of implicit racism takes hold when the percentage of the black population is just too low to encounter blacks in everyday life. You compare "cities and metros" against "homogeneous communities" as though cities and metros are necessarily non-homogeneous. This is not the case. Plenty of cities on the west coast are nearly entirely while. Even moreso if you count white + one other race like Hispanic or Asian. While the latter does offer some kind of non-homogeneity it's still the case that in many cities in liberal states most people go about their working lives without any black coworkers on their team.

There's likely data to back this up: https://www.theroot.com/forbes-10-cities-where-african-ameri...

Re: San Francisco’s Slow-Motion Suicide

#245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I lived in Brooklyn, during an enormous construction boom, and ended up getting driven out by gentrification as the neighborhood got overrun with high-end condo buildings.

Yea, that sucks. The edges of Queens and Brooklyn are hardly less expensive than most of Manhattan. They're really big boroughs though, and living in Flushing or Forest Hills for example is still quite affordable as is deeper Brooklyn. But now that I think about it, it really is a matter of "when", not "if" the neighborhoods further from Manhattan get too expensive. I'll agree with you in like 5-10 years :[

No, not that much in the future. I have a friend who has lived in Flushing for many years. Not long ago they were thinking about getting a bigger apartment, but even with the equity they have, they couldn't do it. It was cheaper for them to buy a weekend place outside of the city.

And Flushing is already way the fuck out there.

Re: San Francisco’s Slow-Motion Suicide

#246
post #25

Having lived in SF for a number of years now, I 100% agree that SF is just dystopian as hell. Trash everywhere downtown, human feces/needles/smell of urine all over downtown & SOMA, depressing mix of aggressive and zombie-like homeless, very few kids/families, very few minorities (especially African-Americans), barely functioning public transportation system, high rents forcing six-figure earners to live with 2 roomm…

The utopia created by hackers on this very site

2/3 of my coworkers don't even vote, so it's not quite created by them in the way you imagine.

Re: San Francisco’s Slow-Motion Suicide

#247
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right? This keeps coming up on the neighborhood FB groups whenever anyone discusses SB50 or any changes. "We don't want to become like NYC, where are all these people going to go??" San Francisco could double its population and still be ~30% less dense than Paris is. Let's aim for that. Paris is generally considered to be an okay place.

> Paris is generally considered to be an okay place. Lol do you know anyone who lives there? It has one of the highest property prices and rents in the world.

But you can get a great croissant for 1 euro.

Re: San Francisco’s Slow-Motion Suicide

#248
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's a quick test for you. Next time you go to SF, count how many dogs you see vs children. Then compare the ratio to NYC. Then tell me again about which city is not 'livable'.

To a very close approximation, the only place I’ve ever seen a nuclear family with kids in New York is Trump Tower.

In Park Slope in Brooklyn you are in constant danger of being run over by a baby buggy.

Re: San Francisco’s Slow-Motion Suicide

#249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've lived in New York. Why would anyone want San Francisco to become like that? Is NYC cheap, clean, free of homeless people? No, it is crowded, smelly, expensive, and only livable for the extremely wealthy.

> I've lived in New York. Why would anyone want San Francisco to become like that? Yeah, I'd hate for SF to be a world class city.

It's not now?

Re: San Francisco’s Slow-Motion Suicide

#250
post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a popular myth. https://www.sftu.org/2018/06/five-myths-about-the-homeless-p... According to that, 71% of people on the streets of SF used to be homed, and aren’t on the streets due to drugs.

This, and other statistics like it, are really disingenuous and framed for a very specific interpretation. Here is the actual quote from the article (strikethrough is in the original - not sure why - maybe a bad stat ?): "The vast majority of the people who are homeless today used to be housed – in San Francisco. According to the city’s 2015 homeless count, 71 percent of the people on the streets were living in San F…

yeah, not sure what happened with that link on their site. SF Gov seems to have moved the report. Here's a breakdown by St. Anthony's: https://www.stanthonysf.org/san-franciscos-2015-homeless-cou...

(to be clear this is from 2015, so nearing 4 years out of date)

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