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2019 Stack Overflow Developer Survey Results

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61–70 of 200 posts

Re: 2019 Stack Overflow Developer Survey Results

#61

Can someone help this old (2^5 years) developer out? I've worked with a number of programming languages over the years, and have never found a combination that brings me such joy and productivity as Ruby and Rails. However, I've always felt that Python and Ruby were very similar in style & goal. Can someone who is experienced in both Rails & Django explain why Python & Django are trending up so quickly, while Ruby &…

I can speak to the RoR dread side, as someone who is now in Django-land coming from RoR.

RoR is ridiculously opinionated. If you don't know The Ruby Way then you'll be fighting the framework for every inch of productivity. It also has a lot more magic than any other framework I've ever used. It hides so much of what it does behind abstractions on top of abstractions that it's hard to do a simple thing and understand what's happening. (This ignores the fact that Ruby is Perl in better clothes, both a huge strength and weakness, depending on your past experience.)

Django is better in that it's slightly more obvious what's happening and why. It still has some magic to it, but not to the same extent. You can also do whatever you want, and it'll be a little harder or a little easier, but it doesn't fight you nearly as hard if you're not doing things The Django Way.

I think if you're a RoR dev and know RoR and like how it works then you're golden - stick with it and be productive. If you don't drink the kool-aid then you're not going to be happy.

Re: 2019 Stack Overflow Developer Survey Results

#62
I actually found this to be the most interesting excerpt from the survey results

>In the United States, almost 30% of respondents said they deal with a mental health challenge, a higher proportion than other large countries such as the UK, Canada, Germany, or India.

I would be interested to know just how much a higher proportion it was than other countries.

Re: 2019 Stack Overflow Developer Survey Results

#64
post #4

Wow, jQuery is still one of the most popular web frameworks. That was unexpected...

As a "full stack developer" with 80% or more of my work being on the backend, JQuery would be my goto choice. Keep things simple and keep most of the logic in the backend.

Re: 2019 Stack Overflow Developer Survey Results

#65
post #4

Wow, jQuery is still one of the most popular web frameworks. That was unexpected...

I was a bit surprised by this as well. As a heavy ReactJS user I tend to avoid from the jQuery stuff.

jQuery was ranked "most popular web framework" (48.7%) but it was also ranked 2nd place for "most dreaded web framework" (54.7%). I suspect that there may be a lot of older projects/sites that still rely heavily on jQuery, thus accounting for high popularity - and possibly the "most dreaded" title.

Re: 2019 Stack Overflow Developer Survey Results

#66

Can someone help this old (2^5 years) developer out? I've worked with a number of programming languages over the years, and have never found a combination that brings me such joy and productivity as Ruby and Rails. However, I've always felt that Python and Ruby were very similar in style & goal. Can someone who is experienced in both Rails & Django explain why Python & Django are trending up so quickly, while Ruby &…

You asked about why Python but it has a lot to do with JS too. But first lets compare against Python:

Ruby is a delightful language, but it's dominated by one niche (web development) and one framework (Rails).

Over the last 10-20 years Python has become the main teaching language in Academia. This has greatly contributed to it's ecosystem for math and science, which in turn has contributed to its rise in Data Science and Machine Learning. It also gets a lot of support from Google.

All of these things combined mean that the broad rise of Python is lifting up Python for web development, but if anything I'd say web dev in Python is lagging behind those other uses.

There's one more thing that I think is the root cause of why Rails - the framework - has faded somewhat in the minds of web devs. Rails has always been an opinionated framework, and early on they came up with "The Rails Way" to do front-end assets. The combination of Sass + CoffeeScript + Asset Pipeline with built-in concatenation, minification, and asset hashing was pretty neat compared to the old world of a bunch of es5 files loaded via script tags.

But this hit before the rise of NPM and being able to `require('foo')`.

The JS packaging wars went on for a while and none of those asset solutions are as simple and "just work" as the Rails Asset Pipeline -- but the asset pipeline doesn't hook you into NPM. Rails dragged its feet for a long time on that before adding webpack support.

So I think during that time you had a TON of the trendy hipster open source people moving into Node first on the front end, and then eventually losing interest in Rails because the framework wasn't making it easy for them play in the very latest js ecosystem.

And I think there quickly became some saltyness among Ruby devs about Javascript, that people were overdoing it and that really you only needed "sprinkles" of Javascript to make a great app.

So (1) Python has risen a ton overall, lifting Django, and (2) Rails was slow to embrace the JS craze and that held Rails back.

Those two trends pretty much tell the story as far as I can tell.

Re: 2019 Stack Overflow Developer Survey Results

#67
As a solo indie developer running my own saas business for 20+ years now, and rarely interacting with other devs, this survey is priceless. I often wonder where I and my stack/tools are in relation to the rest of the field. This report (even if it is biased or skewed) makes me feel like I'm not alone and gives me some validation on my life path and technology choices.

Re: 2019 Stack Overflow Developer Survey Results

#68
post #43

Odd that Perl isn't mentioned anywhere, good or bad, in these results. It's usually at least in there among the Most Dreaded. Was it not listed as an option this year?

From the methodology section:

We used data from last year’s survey and trends in tags on Stack Overflow to identify which technologies to include on the survey this year. We prioritized popular and fast growing technologies, considering which smaller or shrinking technologies we could remove this year.

So, I think it possibly wasn't listed as an option. Something to consider next time one of these reports is cited as evidence for or against something, as editorial discretion may or may not wildly change the meaning of the less popular items. In this case it may have been the difference between an item being included but lowly ranked and not included at all, which without additional information implies it didn't rank enough to be shown, but I'm not sure if that's the case or not (but I have my doubts that WebAssembly outranks Perl).

Re: 2019 Stack Overflow Developer Survey Results

#69
post #32

Can someone help this old (2^5 years) developer out? I've worked with a number of programming languages over the years, and have never found a combination that brings me such joy and productivity as Ruby and Rails. However, I've always felt that Python and Ruby were very similar in style & goal. Can someone who is experienced in both Rails & Django explain why Python & Django are trending up so quickly, while Ruby &…

I also don't understand this. Even today, Rails is, by far, the most productive environment that exists for developing a web application. I speak this as someone who also wrote a ton of backends in Node.js, Java, and many other languages (never tried Django though, so I don't know about that). Almost all of those applications would have been 10% of the effort if they were just Rails apps. A sibling comment here menti…

IMO Spring boot is definitely more productive than Rails; it's basically all the nice things about Rails except more mature and more comprehensive. The JVM is also much more performant than Ruby and Kotlin/Java is a better language in terms of long term maintenance (a proper type system).

Re: 2019 Stack Overflow Developer Survey Results

#70

Can someone help this old (2^5 years) developer out? I've worked with a number of programming languages over the years, and have never found a combination that brings me such joy and productivity as Ruby and Rails. However, I've always felt that Python and Ruby were very similar in style & goal. Can someone who is experienced in both Rails & Django explain why Python & Django are trending up so quickly, while Ruby &…

There's nothing rising about it, Django been around and very popular for years. Python is just a great confluence of all of the things that other languages lack, and the Python language is adapting to include more and more of the things people actually want. I don't think the Ruby language has been nearly as responsive (some would even say that Python has been too responsive, and certain language features are going t…

IMHO, I find python increasingly lacking in features, especially its lack of enthusiasm in adopting functional features, including immutable data structures, pattern matching/ destructuring, python lambda functions are restrictive. To my eye a strong imperative flavor pervades most python code. After some time spend dabbling in Clojure, I find python rather primitive.

Generally it is true that learning a new language, will give one new tools to reason about problems. I find Kotlin and Python amongst the languages I have used, to offer the least new insights and ideas to the student.

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