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The US says Chinese spies are targeting Boston for its tech secrets

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Re: The US says Chinese spies are targeting Boston for its tech secrets

#81

Post by alanwong »

NicoJuicy wrote: post #78
alanwong wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks. A reply button wasn't available until just now, so I had edited my original comment and added a note.

Well, I only trust a news agency that would also report about the people in captivity there ( a couple of million Muslims). Or about the digital credit system. Or about claiming international waters. Or about the countries that won't be able to pay back the investments of the one-road. Where locals don't get any benefits from. Or that the worldwide loans to other countries make it clear that china is not a developing…

Inkstone is Hong Kong-based and independent. We're only a little more than one year old but have published countless stories about all of the topics you mentioned. I'll give you a few examples, below. Try searching the site with site:inkstonenews.com if you want more.

> Well, I only trust a news agency that would also report about the people in captivity there ( a couple of million Muslims).

The two most recent pieces on Xinjiang:

US lawmakers want this man punished over China’s treatment of Muslims https://www.inkstonenews.com/politics/us-lawmakers-urge-sanc...

US condemns Muslim camps that China calls ‘boarding schools’ https://www.inkstonenews.com/politics/us-highlights-mass-det...

> Or about the digital credit system. ‘Worse than doing time’: life on the wrong side of China’s social credit system https://www.inkstonenews.com/china/chinas-13-million-discred... Got bad social credit? Your son isn’t going to college https://www.inkstonenews.com/society/chinas-social-credit-sy...

Re: The US says Chinese spies are targeting Boston for its tech secrets

#82

Post by bilbo0s »

NicoJuicy wrote: post #78
alanwong wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks. A reply button wasn't available until just now, so I had edited my original comment and added a note.

Well, I only trust a news agency that would also report about the people in captivity there ( a couple of million Muslims). Or about the digital credit system. Or about claiming international waters. Or about the countries that won't be able to pay back the investments of the one-road. Where locals don't get any benefits from. Or that the worldwide loans to other countries make it clear that china is not a developing…

Then you want the American propaganda.

We've got plenty of that on CNN and FOX.

No need to go all the way out to China to get your fix. And the Chinese will likely be serving up Chinese propaganda anyway. If you want American propaganda, why not just consume it here in America?

Re: The US says Chinese spies are targeting Boston for its tech secrets

#83

Post by dontbenebby »

Not_a_pizza wrote: post #60
arcticfox wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surely the FBI should be held to account when they make mistakes or behave unfairly, but it seems absurd that they shouldn't consider connections to China when looking for Chinese espionage.

"Mistakes" can also be just lack of sufficient evidence, or even evidence that is not collected properly. Mistakes do not always mean the party is innocent, just that we take them to be on a legal basis regardless of the truth.

>"Mistakes" can also be just lack of sufficient evidence, or even evidence that is not collected properly. Mistakes do not always mean the party is innocent, just that we take them to be on a legal basis regardless of the truth.

I am extremely worried by China's panopticism, especially in Xinjiang[1]. But violating the rights of Chinese students so egregiously that you're unable to secure a conviction because your evidence is "fruit of the poisonous tree"[2] harms American interests by handing a propaganda victory to the PRC.

The FBI needs to ensure they follow the law when they investigate espionage so that offenders can be changed and convicted.

[1] https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/04/04/world/asia/xi...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fruit_of_the_poisonous_tree

Re: The US says Chinese spies are targeting Boston for its tech secrets

#84

Post by meowface »

dontbenebby wrote: post #83
Not_a_pizza wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Mistakes" can also be just lack of sufficient evidence, or even evidence that is not collected properly. Mistakes do not always mean the party is innocent, just that we take them to be on a legal basis regardless of the truth.

> "Mistakes" can also be just lack of sufficient evidence, or even evidence that is not collected properly. Mistakes do not always mean the party is innocent, just that we take them to be on a legal basis regardless of the truth. I am extremely worried by China's panopticism, especially in Xinjiang[1]. But violating the rights of Chinese students so egregiously that you're unable to secure a conviction because your e…

Can you cite examples of them dropping cases against Chinese defendants because of evidence they had to exclude due to it being fruit of the poisonous tree? Inability to secure a conviction can happen for many reasons.

The FBI may very well have been overzealous here (especially considering the history of the organization), but I think we'd need to look at the facts of each case in detail, rather than only the charge and conviction statistics by nationality. The case with the Temple professor appears to have resulted from a misinterpreted email.

Re: The US says Chinese spies are targeting Boston for its tech secrets

#85

Post by dontbenebby »

meowface wrote: post #84
dontbenebby wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Mistakes" can also be just lack of sufficient evidence, or even evidence that is not collected properly. Mistakes do not always mean the party is innocent, just that we take them to be on a legal basis regardless of the truth. I am extremely worried by China's panopticism, especially in Xinjiang[1]. But violating the rights of Chinese students so egregiously that you're unable to secure a conviction because your e…

Can you cite examples of them dropping cases against Chinese defendants because of evidence they had to exclude due to it being fruit of the poisonous tree? Inability to secure a conviction can happen for many reasons. The FBI may very well have been overzealous here (especially considering the history of the organization), but I think we'd need to look at the facts of each case in detail, rather than only the charge…

Parent is the one who stated that mistakes "can also be just lack of sufficient evidence, or even evidence that is not collected properly.", they would be the one to ask about specific cases.

In general, you shouldn't be taking cases to trial you can't win, whether if it's due to evidence being thrown out or evidence not being present in the first place.

Re: The US says Chinese spies are targeting Boston for its tech secrets

#86

Post by C1sc0cat »

sailfast wrote: post #70
C1sc0cat wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would not anyone working in that sort of area not have been vetted and given guidance on what to look for.

I've found that people in many areas of work are given guidance and training then either: a) forget over time b) ignore the policy because they think they know better c) ignore the policy because it is inconvenient (this is my favorite!) d) ignore the policy because it is personally advantageous to them (either for reputation, money, etc) Reminders never hurt (assuming they are reminders and not over the top bigoted…

Probably employing the wrong sort of people then.

Re: The US says Chinese spies are targeting Boston for its tech secrets

#87

Post by sailfast »

C1sc0cat wrote: post #86
sailfast wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've found that people in many areas of work are given guidance and training then either: a) forget over time b) ignore the policy because they think they know better c) ignore the policy because it is inconvenient (this is my favorite!) d) ignore the policy because it is personally advantageous to them (either for reputation, money, etc) Reminders never hurt (assuming they are reminders and not over the top bigoted…

Probably employing the wrong sort of people then.

I would hypothesize that every single medium to large organization has this problem. Anecdata confirms, but that's not data, obviously.

Re: The US says Chinese spies are targeting Boston for its tech secrets

#88

Post by arcticfox »

Eric_WVGG wrote: post #55
arcticfox wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surely the FBI should be held to account when they make mistakes or behave unfairly, but it seems absurd that they shouldn't consider connections to China when looking for Chinese espionage.

If you’re wondering why you’re being downvoted, read up on Soviet espionage during the cold war. Money talks.

I wasn't downvoted, and surely Chinese tactics will evolve over time to match those of the Soviets, but the majority of the Chinese espionage cases that I've seen so far have involved ethnic Chinese.

For example, Walter Liew stealing the titanium dioxide formula (with help from paid off non-Chinese), or the engineering student in Chicago sending off recruiting profiles...all Chinese or Taiwanese.

Re: The US says Chinese spies are targeting Boston for its tech secrets

#89

Post by NicoJuicy »

alanwong wrote: post #81
NicoJuicy wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I only trust a news agency that would also report about the people in captivity there ( a couple of million Muslims). Or about the digital credit system. Or about claiming international waters. Or about the countries that won't be able to pay back the investments of the one-road. Where locals don't get any benefits from. Or that the worldwide loans to other countries make it clear that china is not a developing…

Inkstone is Hong Kong-based and independent. We're only a little more than one year old but have published countless stories about all of the topics you mentioned. I'll give you a few examples, below. Try searching the site with site:inkstonenews.com if you want more. > Well, I only trust a news agency that would also report about the people in captivity there ( a couple of million Muslims). The two most recent piece…

Thanks for the heads-up/correction
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