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San Francisco’s Slow-Motion Suicide

nationalreview.com

131–140 of 312 posts

Re: San Francisco’s Slow-Motion Suicide

#131
post #109

The author lost me at > Cities are nearly immortal; though they decline, they rarely die. Cities great and small die all the time. Ur died, Babylon died. SF will die. Cities die when their purpose no longer justifies their expense. And the purpose of most cities is concentrating people to facilitate trade. But increasingly there’s nothing to do in SF, especially for the masses. If people don’t figure out something fo…

Exactly. Are Detroit and Baltimore dead? May as well be, for most intents and purposes.

I think this issue / attitude is a major problem with the US. Both Detroit and Baltimore have over 600k people living there, a lot of whom don't have the option to just pack up and go. To claim the cities are dead is a disservice to the very real adults and children living there. If the nation dropped its war on drugs and instead waged a war on poverty those cities would be able to thrive in a generation or two.

Re: San Francisco’s Slow-Motion Suicide

#132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and only livable for the extremely wealthy. Do you mean just Manhattan? There are five boroughs.

I lived in Brooklyn, during an enormous construction boom, and ended up getting driven out by gentrification as the neighborhood got overrun with high-end condo buildings.

Yea, that sucks. The edges of Queens and Brooklyn are hardly less expensive than most of Manhattan. They're really big boroughs though, and living in Flushing or Forest Hills for example is still quite affordable as is deeper Brooklyn.

But now that I think about it, it really is a matter of "when", not "if" the neighborhoods further from Manhattan get too expensive. I'll agree with you in like 5-10 years :[

Re: San Francisco’s Slow-Motion Suicide

#133
This is a National Review opinion article offered as a news piece (as they are wont to do). It features a seamless conflation of SF's problems with Silicon Valley's somewhat corrosive lobbying effects on the urban expansion problems of SF, as if they're the same thing.

It suggests that San Francisco's housing problem is NOT directly at the feet of the folks who own the majority of the property, and instead implicates... uh, let me just check the article again... "Baby Boomer civil servants [acting] as urban taxidermists stuffing and mounting a dead city so it always resembles the past."

The implication of that paragraph is that it's democratic "regulation" that is halting SF's expansion, but if you live in the city you're looking at the recent unsuccessful public/private partnership building projects wondering why building codes aren't stricter (I'm looking at you, ridiculous Salesforce(tm) transbay terminal). The implication that it's bureaucracy and not a bitter generational argument between young and old residents about "preserving the city" vs. "meeting the housing demand" is likewise absurd; it's SF citizens as a whole that are debating how to proceed. A republican governance wouldn't be better off here, except it might find more alignment with property owners (who benefit enormously from this state of affairs) instead of less.

It suggests that SF doesn't have culture, but that's wrong. It has tons of culture, but it's not accessible to rich white people hoping to stroll through like tourists. You can still access it if you code yourself correctly, but if you roll up with merino wool shoes and $800 vest over a tech t-shirt and iWatch, you're not gonna make a lot of progress because people will avoid you.

But if you are that person, it's not like there aren't a dozen hopeful artists lurking around the edges of popular rich mission spots hoping to get your spare $20s. It's not like public spaces don't exist for you.

Most humorously, it features at least one nationally reviled industrialist who has increasingly had a hard time finding anyone willing to work with him anywhere where Software Engineers make good money. Thiel avoids popping up in SF because people don't like his politics here and would rather he retreat back to his bubble in orange county. We don't, strictly speaking, need his money. We have enough money, we need to build up the will to use it to solve the problems we have more acutely, but that are shared in kind with every city that's finding a way to prosper in an era where many other cities are struggling to recover from even more acute decline.

This article is everything I'd expect from a National Review piece about SF. It is confused about the geography, tone deaf to the politics, quick to blame local government for problems brought about by citizens, and steeped in the popular meme that "art is dead because I don't see marble busts anymore" memes that sound like they're fresh out of a PragerU video.

Re: San Francisco’s Slow-Motion Suicide

#134

Having lived in SF for a number of years now, I 100% agree that SF is just dystopian as hell. Trash everywhere downtown, human feces/needles/smell of urine all over downtown & SOMA, depressing mix of aggressive and zombie-like homeless, very few kids/families, very few minorities (especially African-Americans), barely functioning public transportation system, high rents forcing six-figure earners to live with 2 roomm…

So let's build more facilities to help deal with the homeless problem rather than whining about why we can't just ship them off to an even bigger city, the way the rest of the western US does?

We cannot stop other cities from doing this to us. So we are going to have to stop whining and cope.

Re: San Francisco’s Slow-Motion Suicide

#135
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I could so see a planet-bound version of the movie Elysium. The elite top 5% live in walled off fortresses, a la Aeon Flux's city, and have everything - while the rest live outside in a daily fight to live against a dystopian environment financially and economically. I don't think it's inevitable though, so the question is - how do we stop it? We have some of the brighter minds in tech on this forum, what are your th…

Walking around Pacific Heights gives me that feeling… How to stop it and create a city where anyone can live: - build world class public transit - double the number of houses but decommodify the housing market as much as possible with lots of social housing and controlled rent increases

>How to stop it and create a city where anyone can live

I'd say if "building a city where anyone can live" is the highest goal, that's an issue in and of itself.

Would you want to work for a company "where anyone could work?"

Re: San Francisco’s Slow-Motion Suicide

#137

Having lived in SF for a number of years now, I 100% agree that SF is just dystopian as hell. Trash everywhere downtown, human feces/needles/smell of urine all over downtown & SOMA, depressing mix of aggressive and zombie-like homeless, very few kids/families, very few minorities (especially African-Americans), barely functioning public transportation system, high rents forcing six-figure earners to live with 2 roomm…

How is it that so much aggressive political rhetoric related to race and the tech industry is coming from this area if there are very few African Americans there in the first place? I live in Atlanta where the minority population is much higher all around and I don't get the sense at all that there's rampant racism or discrimination. Is this problem unique to the Bay Area or is this largely white guilt?

Leaving aside the weird premise of your comment, you're confusing the Bay Area with San Francisco, which are different things. Black communities in the Bay Area are where they are in part because of a very long history of institutional discrimination. Richmond may be the most glaring example—you have a very rich marina district on one side of a freeway, and a very poor one on the other.

Re: San Francisco’s Slow-Motion Suicide

#138

Having lived in SF for a number of years now, I 100% agree that SF is just dystopian as hell. Trash everywhere downtown, human feces/needles/smell of urine all over downtown & SOMA, depressing mix of aggressive and zombie-like homeless, very few kids/families, very few minorities (especially African-Americans), barely functioning public transportation system, high rents forcing six-figure earners to live with 2 roomm…

Having lived here for 20 years, I can say things are a great deal better than they were before the Downtown tech explosion that happened 10 years ago. Market was filled with pushers you would only now only see on 6th St, and I literally saw a drive-by shooting (resulting in murder) on Mission at 19th (Beauty Bar). Both of those things are unthinkable today.

I feel like people are forgetting how bad things use to be.

[Edited for tappos]

Re: San Francisco’s Slow-Motion Suicide

#139
post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Companies are not the problem, San Franciscans are the problem. By all accounts, Texas regulates companies less than California. But Texas is at the national average in cost-of-living adjusted poverty rate, despite being a majority-minority state, while California tops the charts in poverty: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/chuckdevor... . As compared to California, Texas also has much higher rates o…

You must have visited a relatively "blue" urban area. What you describe doesn't match the reality in most of the rest of the state. And while there are pockets of segregation and racism in Northern California by and large there are very few places as diverse as the Bay Area on Earth, much less the rest of America and particularly the south.

Houston is one of the most diverse cities in the US, because they allow people - and not just wealthy people - to live there.

Re: San Francisco’s Slow-Motion Suicide

#140

The elites of SF and many people on HN are caught in this loop: 1. Companies don't take personal responsibility when they do antisocial things, claiming they can't be blamed, since they are just following incentives in order to compete. 2. Companies follow incentives, and lobby government to incentivize the behaviors that make them the most money (even if those behaviors are antisocial). 3. Government, influenced by…

Companies are not the problem, San Franciscans are the problem. By all accounts, Texas regulates companies less than California. But Texas is at the national average in cost-of-living adjusted poverty rate, despite being a majority-minority state, while California tops the charts in poverty: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/chuckdevor... . As compared to California, Texas also has much higher rates o…

Where in Texas were you? I live in Austin, which is rapidly becoming a landing spot for Californians looking to get away, and my experience in Texas has been quite different than yours.

Segregation was physically built into the planning of the city of Austin[0], and it's pretty apparent if you spend a significant amount of time here. Not only that, but rising cost of living in Austin keeps pushing minority communities further and further from the city.

The social scene is pretty similar to what you're describing in Palo Alto as well. Tech is overwhelmingly white and male, and the social scene around the industry reflects this.

I'm not going to argue that companies are the only problem, but job creation that only benefits highly skilled labor and leaves the rest of the community out to dry causes, or at the very least exacerbates, several of the problems outlined in this piece.

It's a system that has benefited me tremendously, but as I get out of the tech community "bubble" and explore more of Austin, I see a lot of parallels between SF and ATX. My fear is that SF is just ahead of the curve.

[0]: https://projects.statesman.com/news/economic-mobility/

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