San Francisco’s Slow-Motion Suicide • Hacker News Board

Re: San Francisco’s Slow-Motion Suicide

#91

Post by terandle » Tue, Apr 09, 2019, 2:12 PM UTC

kerkeslager wrote: post #67

The elites of SF and many people on HN are caught in this loop: 1. Companies don't take personal responsibility when they do antisocial things, claiming they can't be blamed, since they are just following incentives in order to compete. 2. Companies follow incentives, and lobby government to incentivize the behaviors that make them the most money (even if those behaviors are antisocial). 3. Government, influenced by…

What sort of regulations are you looking for? I’m just not sure how regulating a company will end homelessness. Seems like the government should be using taxes to do that.

Re: San Francisco’s Slow-Motion Suicide

#92

Post by diab0lic » Tue, Apr 09, 2019, 2:13 PM UTC

asveikau wrote: post #82

diab0lic wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's all well and good that you disagree, but SF has 13.4% persons under 18 compared to the national average of 22.6% [0]. There are very few kids / families. [0] https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/sanfranciscocit...

You say something mathematically precise and then switch into a vague "very few". Take some walks around the parks and go people watching, you will get a better feel for what that "very few" can mean. 13% of 800,000 is about 100,000. Very few.

I was restating the line you quoted, and yes precisely SF has very few families compared to other cities in the US. A sister comment seems to indicate that even NYC is 24% (I haven't verified this.) So even for similar urbanization levels SF has very few families.

Re: San Francisco’s Slow-Motion Suicide

#93

Post by apexalpha » Tue, Apr 09, 2019, 2:13 PM UTC

kerkeslager wrote: post #67

The elites of SF and many people on HN are caught in this loop: 1. Companies don't take personal responsibility when they do antisocial things, claiming they can't be blamed, since they are just following incentives in order to compete. 2. Companies follow incentives, and lobby government to incentivize the behaviors that make them the most money (even if those behaviors are antisocial). 3. Government, influenced by…

Coupled with the standard MBA phrase "companies are a-moral".

Disconnecting them from any community they serve, work in or deal with.

Re: San Francisco’s Slow-Motion Suicide

#94

Post by closeparen » Tue, Apr 09, 2019, 2:13 PM UTC

dawhizkid wrote: post #60

closeparen wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to dismiss this completely, but there are neighborhoods with lots of kids around. SOMA just isn’t one of them.

SF has one of the lowest % of kids of any major US city. https://www.sfgate.com/mommyfiles/article/Many-families-leav...

I should rephrase: there are definitely neighborhoods with lots of babies and toddlers. School aged children are a rare sight.

Re: San Francisco’s Slow-Motion Suicide

#95

Post by xenihn » Tue, Apr 09, 2019, 2:13 PM UTC

minikites wrote: post #42

typon wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The utopia created by hackers on this very site

Every action is political and ignoring that reality is how many of these problems are created in the first place. This is why many tech workers "hate politics", they hate having to be responsible for their actions.

The vast majority of people hate having to be responsible for their actions, no need to single anyone out.

Re: San Francisco’s Slow-Motion Suicide

#96

Post by tntn » Tue, Apr 09, 2019, 2:14 PM UTC

asveikau wrote: post #53

dawhizkid wrote: post #10

Having lived in SF for a number of years now, I 100% agree that SF is just dystopian as hell. Trash everywhere downtown, human feces/needles/smell of urine all over downtown & SOMA, depressing mix of aggressive and zombie-like homeless, very few kids/families, very few minorities (especially African-Americans), barely functioning public transportation system, high rents forcing six-figure earners to live with 2 roomm…

> very few kids/families, I am raising my kids here and disagree with your assessment. There is a pretty good community of families here.

http://www.bayareacensus.ca.gov/counties/SanFranciscoCounty....

I don't think there are other major cities where the population is Your view of the "pretty good community" is irrelevant. Compared to other cities, San Francisco has "very few kids/families."

Re: San Francisco’s Slow-Motion Suicide

#97

Post by bilbo0s » Tue, Apr 09, 2019, 2:14 PM UTC

atom-morgan wrote: post #22

dawhizkid wrote: post #10

Having lived in SF for a number of years now, I 100% agree that SF is just dystopian as hell. Trash everywhere downtown, human feces/needles/smell of urine all over downtown & SOMA, depressing mix of aggressive and zombie-like homeless, very few kids/families, very few minorities (especially African-Americans), barely functioning public transportation system, high rents forcing six-figure earners to live with 2 roomm…

How is it that so much aggressive political rhetoric related to race and the tech industry is coming from this area if there are very few African Americans there in the first place? I live in Atlanta where the minority population is much higher all around and I don't get the sense at all that there's rampant racism or discrimination. Is this problem unique to the Bay Area or is this largely white guilt?

>I live in Atlanta where the minority population is much higher all around and I don't get the sense at all that there's rampant racism or discrimination...

???

Uh, you don't notice any racial bickering in Atlanta?

Not saying it's only in Atlanta. It's everywhere, all over the nation really. I'm just wondering where in Atlanta you live that racial bickering is absent in public discourse?

Re: San Francisco’s Slow-Motion Suicide

#98

Post by rb808 » Tue, Apr 09, 2019, 2:14 PM UTC

mikeyouse wrote: post #84

api wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The mistake here is assuming that if SF grows it must become NYC. What if it could be better? There are many other even higher density cities than NYC in the world with much better policies and quality of life. Look to those.

Right? This keeps coming up on the neighborhood FB groups whenever anyone discusses SB50 or any changes. "We don't want to become like NYC, where are all these people going to go??" San Francisco could double its population and still be ~30% less dense than Paris is. Let's aim for that. Paris is generally considered to be an okay place.

> Paris is generally considered to be an okay place.

Lol do you know anyone who lives there? It has one of the highest property prices and rents in the world.

Re: San Francisco’s Slow-Motion Suicide

#99

Post by zaroth » Tue, Apr 09, 2019, 2:15 PM UTC

kerkeslager wrote: post #67

The elites of SF and many people on HN are caught in this loop: 1. Companies don't take personal responsibility when they do antisocial things, claiming they can't be blamed, since they are just following incentives in order to compete. 2. Companies follow incentives, and lobby government to incentivize the behaviors that make them the most money (even if those behaviors are antisocial). 3. Government, influenced by…

The companies are also the ones trying to build the new housing atop that laundromat, or open that ice cream shop.

I’m not sure how you could read TFA and come away with companies need more regulations? True or not it seems besides the point.

The soul of SF is empty as long as the laws and regulations of the city serve only the wealthy. The policies of the overwhelmingly democratic city have created a festering menagerie of wealthy post-IPO wunderkin and drugged homeless masses. The people that used to live in that city now drive 3 hours to get to their medial job in the city cleaning, catering, delivering, or transporting the rich urbanites.

More corporate regulation? I don’t get it.

Re: San Francisco’s Slow-Motion Suicide

#100

Post by notsofastbuddy » Tue, Apr 09, 2019, 2:15 PM UTC

dmitryminkovsky wrote: post #78

The author lost me at > Cities are nearly immortal; though they decline, they rarely die. Cities great and small die all the time. Ur died, Babylon died. SF will die. Cities die when their purpose no longer justifies their expense. And the purpose of most cities is concentrating people to facilitate trade. But increasingly there’s nothing to do in SF, especially for the masses. If people don’t figure out something fo…

Your examples are more than 2000 years old.