An epidemic of fake influencers and the death of meritocracy • Hacker News Board

Re: An epidemic of fake influencers and the death of meritocracy

#151

Post by Vinnl » Tue, Apr 09, 2019, 7:25 AM UTC

fphilipe wrote: post #122

marcus_holmes wrote: post #94

I'm currently doing the Digital Nomad thing, wandering around the world building a product. So many "influencers" out there. Usually not only "growing their audience", but now running courses on "how to live your dream by becoming an Instagram Influencer while travelling". The industry appears to be eating itself (this is also true of the nomad thing, too - so many "coaches" and "mentors" out there who will teach you…

> "how to live your dream by becoming an Instagram Influencer while travelling" Gosh, imagine how that traveling looks like, documenting every moment of it, creating all these fake, yet real looking spontaneous stories. I doubt that one can actually enjoy traveling like that, but maybe that's just me. I feel sorry for these people.

I don't think that GP meant that the travelling is fake, but that the house of cards is bound to fall down or is already falling down, because only so many people can make vlogs about making a living making vlogs. For many of them, the end result might simply be having lost their savings/racked up debt, going back home and then considering themselves a failure. And many others dreaming of this lifestyle, feeling that it should be attainable, but not being able to get there themselves.

Re: An epidemic of fake influencers and the death of meritocracy

#152

Post by kristianc » Tue, Apr 09, 2019, 7:26 AM UTC

raxxorrax wrote: post #150

omginternets wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Two things: 1. You're putting a lot of very different things in the same bag. Marketing is not advertising, and all advertising is not unethical. 2. I don't know where you work, but I'm willing to bet you're making a living because advertisers are pushing a product or service you build/direct. If you're going to make this kind of blanket statement, you should at least follow its implications all the way to the endpoi…

That depends if the ad is just presenting something or the marketeer engages in further "perception management" (I don't know the jargon). This stuff, buying clicks, lobbying platforms to ban content you don't want to be associated with your product/service because it could distort its "cleanness". Advertising is needed but there are a lot of valid reasons people don't like them very much.

The parent made a pretty blanket statement that marketing is wrong.

There are bad marketers as there are bad programmers, bad lawyers and bad physicians, but we don't jump to 'all programming is bad'.

Re: An epidemic of fake influencers and the death of meritocracy

#153

Post by raxxorrax » Tue, Apr 09, 2019, 7:28 AM UTC

thatfrenchguy wrote: post #95

Jedi72 wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a deeper truth that marketing people (like yourself I am guessing?) don't want to admit: what you do is wrong. To it's very core. You're attempting to take away people's free will, using the dirtiest tactics one could imagine. Emotional manipulation, exploiting peoples insecurities, their need to feel a certain level of status from their peers: these are staple tactics of a marketer, and social media influen…

Free will is highly overstated though: as the parent comment said, everything you think and believe and thus do is linked to a particular social context. That's true for the stuff you buy, the stuff you believe in, the things you think are "wrong" or "right" or "normal" or "abnormal". When you start looking/living in other societies you realise that all of these is just cultural norms.

So if we wanted to disprove that, we need to find this one guy that is in the same social groups but believes something fundamentally different?

I think this is overgeneralized and the effect that people agree on a set of believes/values/rules isn't a good indicator of the presence of free will. There might be other mechanisms involved.

Re: An epidemic of fake influencers and the death of meritocracy

#154

Post by cjslep » Tue, Apr 09, 2019, 7:28 AM UTC

fphilipe wrote: post #122

marcus_holmes wrote: post #94

I'm currently doing the Digital Nomad thing, wandering around the world building a product. So many "influencers" out there. Usually not only "growing their audience", but now running courses on "how to live your dream by becoming an Instagram Influencer while travelling". The industry appears to be eating itself (this is also true of the nomad thing, too - so many "coaches" and "mentors" out there who will teach you…

> "how to live your dream by becoming an Instagram Influencer while travelling" Gosh, imagine how that traveling looks like, documenting every moment of it, creating all these fake, yet real looking spontaneous stories. I doubt that one can actually enjoy traveling like that, but maybe that's just me. I feel sorry for these people.

I was in Zermatt 2 weekends ago walking around the town when I suddenly heard behind me "Hello and welcome to my channel".

Turn around, see a posse of people around a guy pointing a serious camera at his face. I immediately felt bad for him, it felt so unnatural and the realization that this "vacation" was a job for him did not make me envious at all.

My wife and I instead found a bar inhabited by the local service workers and had a great time hearing their stories.

Re: An epidemic of fake influencers and the death of meritocracy

#155

Post by afiori » Tue, Apr 09, 2019, 7:29 AM UTC

gsich wrote: post #143

mettamage wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is such a good overview, I feel that an academic version of this idea should be given in software development 101 classes.

product life cycle?

monetized platform life cycle

Re: An epidemic of fake influencers and the death of meritocracy

#156

Post by EliRivers » Tue, Apr 09, 2019, 7:30 AM UTC

CptFribble wrote: post #66

EliRivers wrote: post #26

Sounds like it can take a lot of money and effort to become a winner at the game of Instagram. The system has rules; you have to know them and play them in order to win. Other players know the rules too, and you know that they know that, so fun second order effects exist. I can see why it could be fun, competing with other players. Trying to keep up with whatever kind of picture (and legend behind it, I expect) score…

It does matter, because "winning" at IG means you have an audience. Audiences can and will be monetized. I don't think this is that hard to see. The reason so many people go so hard on the Instagram game isn't just to make themselves feel good or validated, it's because when you have 400,000 people watching your stories every day a lot of people will pay you to wear their gear while you do it.

Oh sure, ok, money. I didn't really think of that; it's all well out of my context. It's like sports. It matters like sports matter; for most people just a bit of fun, and for people really good at it, some money. It matters on an individual level for people who like it or make a living at it.

Re: An epidemic of fake influencers and the death of meritocracy

#157

Post by trickstra » Tue, Apr 09, 2019, 7:40 AM UTC

amelius wrote: post #136

mettamage wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is such a good overview, I feel that an academic version of this idea should be given in software development 101 classes.

Yes but I'd say business school.

anywhere and everywhere. The same process works with our political leaders, so everyone should be aware

Re: An epidemic of fake influencers and the death of meritocracy

#158

Post by mekoka » Tue, Apr 09, 2019, 7:43 AM UTC

kstenerud wrote: post #120

This is basically a repeat of SEO. At first, you have the early adopters. Things grow organically and it doesn't feel like a zero-sum game because there aren't many players. Next comes the growth phase, where more people get involved, and start competing for attention/clicks/votes/whatever points system. Next comes the exploiters, who discover weaknesses in the system and take advantage of them. They tend to make a l…

You're describing society. Any free "social" system, virtual or otherwise, can and will attract the same ingredients and the outcome will be a strong approximation of a normal society.

Re: An epidemic of fake influencers and the death of meritocracy

#159

Post by Xelbair » Tue, Apr 09, 2019, 7:43 AM UTC

I mean... weren't influencers always fake? It is in their name - they exists to influence people towards some specific outcome. For some - it is equivalent to ads, for others it is political agenda.

Some might even believe in what the say and do, but first and foremost they are platform to deliver an idea. There is nothing real required from them, just an illusion of it.

Re: An epidemic of fake influencers and the death of meritocracy

#160

Post by ivanhoe » Tue, Apr 09, 2019, 7:52 AM UTC

Jedi72 wrote: post #92

CptFribble wrote: post #76

Apologies if this is too meta, but all the claims of "ugh so glad I don't care about social media" and "what do influencers am I right????" feel really, really disingenuous on a forum run by a silicon valley incubator, where discussions of building products that run on advertisements regularly take place. I think there's a deeper truth that most people, including us here on HN, don't want to admit: humans are at not…

There is a deeper truth that marketing people (like yourself I am guessing?) don't want to admit: what you do is wrong. To it's very core. You're attempting to take away people's free will, using the dirtiest tactics one could imagine. Emotional manipulation, exploiting peoples insecurities, their need to feel a certain level of status from their peers: these are staple tactics of a marketer, and social media influen…

Everything that we do in life is a form of marketing and PR. The very way we present ourselves to the world, our body language, how we dress, make up, color and style our hair, stuff that we talk about, it's all an attempt to sell ourselves as better and smarter and sexier than the competition, and we all do it all the time. And for all of us at least part of it is really just plain fake. If you'd apply the same rules used for commercial products on all those happy couples, perfect housewives, cool bros having crazy adventures that you can see all over Facebook, Instagram, etc. they'd all be charged for false advertising. So don't be that hard on people trying to sell you skateboards...