US Workers Are Highly Taxed If You Count Premiums • Hacker News Board

Re: US Workers Are Highly Taxed If You Count Premiums

#381

Post by AQuantized » Tue, Apr 09, 2019, 6:12 AM UTC

petronio wrote: post #360

Bombthecat wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's sad though. This means that most students never earn more than 25k per year, even if they studied..

Actually, if we assume the previously posted £10,000/year, and three years for a Bachelor's they'd have a £30,000 debt. Assuming no interest, since it's only the amount over £25,725 that's taxed they'd have to average £25,725+((£30,000/30)/.09), or £36,836.11, over 30 years to fully repay, which I think is a much more reasonable number outside of HCOL areas. I'm not sure if they account for inflation or have any fixe…

Interest rates vary depending on how much you earn. https://www.gov.uk/repaying-your-student-loan/what-you-pay

It's basically inflation + 3% if you're earning more than £45k/yr+.

Re: US Workers Are Highly Taxed If You Count Premiums

#382

Post by readittwice » Tue, Apr 09, 2019, 6:35 AM UTC

mschuetz wrote: post #306

morsma wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me it's the opposite. I moved from Denmark to the US, and I pay around $400 in health insurance premiums (health, eye, and dental) for a whole family. In Denmark, only health is covered, so for eye and dental many go out-of-country to get it cheap. The US is much cheaper for all health insurances, except if your poor. Obama tried to fix that, but made it worse and more expensive for everyone (socialism).

Did you check your employers contribution? Because at my US job, I paid around 340$ to insurance but the employer matched it with another 340$ to insurance, so insurance was actually 680$/month. A ridiculously bad deal considering there were still deductibles/out of pocket of a few thousand dollars and some differences based on whether I get in-network or out-of-network treatment. > In Denmark, only health is covered…

Well, in Austria there are a lot of people going to the dentist to Hungary as well because it's cheaper. The situation is a bit more subtle than you pretend it is.

Health insurance typically only covers the minimum at the dentist, and almost nothing of what is considered "cosmetic" or would be good in the long-run (e.g. oral hygiene, braces). It gets expensive quite fast.

Re: US Workers Are Highly Taxed If You Count Premiums

#383

Post by colordrops » Tue, Apr 09, 2019, 6:39 AM UTC

peteretep wrote: post #374

roenxi wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

'You should know the price before you agree to buy the product' seems like such an innocuous principle. Why isn't their broad-based support of it for medical care? If you need emergency care then sure, there isn't time. The vast majority of interactions with the medical system aren't that type of emergency though. People have time to choose the better of two options. They can't decide on better if they don't know the…

> Why isn't their broad-based support of it for medical care Because the American medical system is perhaps the finest example in the world of regulatory capture, ironically masquerading as an example of pure capitalism, while decrying the "socialism" in other countries.

Bravo, perfectly succinct description of the ground truth.

Re: US Workers Are Highly Taxed If You Count Premiums

#384

Post by Thlom » Tue, Apr 09, 2019, 6:55 AM UTC

refurb wrote: post #353

exodus_de wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The German government doesn't negotiate anything. They set prices, period. Set them too low and you create shortages. Guess what the German healthcare system has, it's a shortage of doctors , especially specialists. German doctors are leaving for greener pastures, like Switzerland. They are replaced by doctors from Eastern Europe. Quality suffers. Waiting times are high. Most Germans are too uninformed or arrogant to…

You have a point. There are a lot of people comparing the worst parts of the US system with the best parts of the single payer systems. As a Canadian, I will say there are a lot of people dissatisfied with the Canadian system. Likely to a lesser degree than in the US, but the system is far from perfect.

Health care can never be perfect unless you (personally or government) are willing to pay an indefinite amount of money towards it. The positive with an imperfect socialized system is that it's under democratic control. In other words society decides what to prioritize.

Re: US Workers Are Highly Taxed If You Count Premiums

#385

Post by JamesBarney » Tue, Apr 09, 2019, 7:00 AM UTC

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #311

bilbo0s wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, but then we'd just be dominated by states like Minnesota, California, Delaware, New York, etc. Basically, ginormous pools of money would start to build in the old Union and out on the west coast. But almost everyone in the middle would be hosed. (I mean places like Oklahoma and Colorado would likely be pretty happy, but everyone else would take substantial financial hits.)

> Yeah, but then we'd just be dominated by states like Minnesota, California, Delaware, New York, etc. Basically, ginormous pools of money would start to build in the old Union and out on the west coast. But almost everyone in the middle would be hosed. Not really. States like California are net payers, but only just, because they have large diverse populations and end up getting back almost all of what they pay in.…

I think you have an incorrect understanding of pork barrel spending. Of that $10,000 that you put into the government. $6000 go to social security/medicare. $2,000 to military+veterans. Then another $600 to debt. And the remaining $1,400 goes to education/food+ agro/education/transportation/housing/science/energy/internal affairs. I don't know how much of that is pork barrel spending but I doubt it's more than a couple of hundred.

Re: US Workers Are Highly Taxed If You Count Premiums

#386

Post by yomly » Tue, Apr 09, 2019, 7:01 AM UTC

biesnecker wrote: post #3

I once considered relocating with the same company to a similar role in London. The base pay in London is lower, and the marginal tax rates are high, but overall cost of living isn't too terribly far off (compared to the SF Bay Area), and doing calculations like these it seemed that while it would be something of a step down total compensation-wise, it wasn't nearly as large of one as it at first seemed. I didn't mak…

What fraction of SF salary did they ask you to take out of interest? I knew a googler who said London was 0.7*Mountain View total comp as an engineer

Re: US Workers Are Highly Taxed If You Count Premiums

#387

Post by robocat » Tue, Apr 09, 2019, 7:06 AM UTC

elliekelly wrote: post #325

mercutio2 wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed! The way countries with cheaper healthcare manage to spend less is by paying healthcare workers much less. Doctors and nurses in the US are high status. When they lobby against something, it’s hard to win. When I read people discussing cheaper healthcare, I always go looking for the part where they explain that healthcare professionals will make a significantly lower dollar per hour. I rarely find this discuss…

I wonder how the earnings of American doctors compare to European doctors once you've removed the high cost of an American education/all those student loans they're paying off.

Comparing raw $ makes little sense.

I think you would need to compare median nurse/doctor salaries against median salaries for that country...

Re: US Workers Are Highly Taxed If You Count Premiums

#388

Post by cheschire » Tue, Apr 09, 2019, 7:07 AM UTC

austincheney wrote: post #380

rhacker wrote: post #87

Like to bring this up when we talk taxes: I think it's totally crazy that we give the feds 25% or more and our states soo soo sooooo much less. I think it should be the other way around: 5% for the feds, and maybe 20% to the states. The reason is that our cities are filled with bums, and have absolutely no money to either give them jobs or make new programs. The feds don't give a shit and are busy making missiles or…

> or more and our states soo soo sooooo much less That is a perspective from somebody living in a place with state income tax. Life is so much better when you are not paying state income taxes. Texas, Florida, and a few other places have no state income taxes.

Your reply is to a post that is talking about taxes generally, not income taxes specifically. Texas has no income tax, but has sales[0] and property[1] taxes that are above the national average, as well as tolls on many public[2] roads. Texans are heavily taxed, but in ways which are based on overall footprint/usage rather than the ham-fisted distribution of income taxes that other states prefer. I agree with your assertion that life is better because of that.

0: https://taxfoundation.org/state-and-local-sales-tax-rates-20...

1: https://www.thebalance.com/best-and-worst-states-for-propert...

2: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_toll_roads_in_Texas#Op...

Re: US Workers Are Highly Taxed If You Count Premiums

#389

Post by lsc » Tue, Apr 09, 2019, 7:15 AM UTC

billions wrote: post #127

mschuetz wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, and cost of health insurance in Austria is just 7,65% of your income, and it covers your children. When I've worked in the US, I've paid just as much for health insurance and still had high out-of-pockets and deductibles on top of that.

Based on US household income, 7.65% of 56,516 = $4,323/yr

Yup, and that's about what you pay for a single person health insurance in the US that isn't very high deductible. I think my employer pays about $6K/yr for me and another $6K/yr for my partner, (I know this 'cause I've gotta pay taxes on hers, as we're not married) but it's a reasonably good plan. Same provider, but more expensive/better coverage when I was buying through my own company. When I see the doctor, they charge me a symbolic fee, but it's usually around what the ride share to get there costs me. (the parking there, ugh.)

Personally, I avoid the very high deductible plans, mostly because I have the option, but also because I don't want to deal with hospital billing. I've got an HMO (kaiser) and they charge me almost nothing at point of service, and I get to consume all the medical care my doctor thinks I need.

Unfortunately, my employer has a really juicy high deductible plan that a lot of my co-workers use. Like they actually give you money to put in your HSA that covers most of your high deductible. It's a good plan. But I don't like it because it means my co-workers get to keep extra money for not going to the doctor when they are sick, and instead they come into the open plan office and cough all over the place.

I mean, I do okay, and I'd be happy to kick in a little extra money if it meant my co-workers were more likely to go to the doctor when they are sick rather than sharing the love with the office.

Re: US Workers Are Highly Taxed If You Count Premiums

#390

Post by WillPostForFood » Tue, Apr 09, 2019, 7:28 AM UTC

jedberg wrote: post #185

rhacker wrote: post #87

Like to bring this up when we talk taxes: I think it's totally crazy that we give the feds 25% or more and our states soo soo sooooo much less. I think it should be the other way around: 5% for the feds, and maybe 20% to the states. The reason is that our cities are filled with bums, and have absolutely no money to either give them jobs or make new programs. The feds don't give a shit and are busy making missiles or…

The whole point of allowing people to deduct their state tax payments was to solve exactly this problem. Let the states that want to tax more and provide more social services do so without harm to their citizens. Of course that deduction is gone now, which just further solidifies government power.

The SALT deduction is not gone, it is capped at $10,000.