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An epidemic of fake influencers and the death of meritocracy

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Re: An epidemic of fake influencers and the death of meritocracy

#91

Post by ilovecaching »

gcb0 wrote: post #81
ilovecaching wrote: post #54

I think you could look at the value of an influencer as providing an aesthetic, much like an artist, but the kicker is that the influencer is driving ads and is part of a consumerist architecture. While true art is nourishing, influencing is about depriving someone of contentment by making them want something they don't have. I also think when we see people who are paid a lot, we want to like them, and feel as though…

would be very entertaining to see you being offered that option.

I'm sure there's a point where ego takes over and you start to believe in your own godhood and essential utility to humanity. :)

Re: An epidemic of fake influencers and the death of meritocracy

#92

Post by Jedi72 »

CptFribble wrote: post #76

Apologies if this is too meta, but all the claims of "ugh so glad I don't care about social media" and "what do influencers am I right????" feel really, really disingenuous on a forum run by a silicon valley incubator, where discussions of building products that run on advertisements regularly take place. I think there's a deeper truth that most people, including us here on HN, don't want to admit: humans are at not…

There is a deeper truth that marketing people (like yourself I am guessing?) don't want to admit: what you do is wrong. To it's very core. You're attempting to take away people's free will, using the dirtiest tactics one could imagine. Emotional manipulation, exploiting peoples insecurities, their need to feel a certain level of status from their peers: these are staple tactics of a marketer, and social media influencers are the most horrid incantation of this dystopian reality.

Note that I distinguish marketing from mere ads, which (one hopes) are just trying to impart information. I have no problem with you saying you have skateboard for sale at $50. When you pay a 19yr old model to stand there looking cool with a sultry look on her face, thats not advertising, its manipulation. Sure it works, its even legal, but it's a very evil thing.

https://youtu.be/_86qb7hlbJI says it all (only 50 second long and very funny, be sure to check out his other stuff - comedy is usually greatest when its saying something true).

Re: An epidemic of fake influencers and the death of meritocracy

#93

Post by RikNieu »

zwaps wrote: post #30

Man, reading this makes me so happy I don't care about social media, and I have other aspirations than trying to be a social media influencer. What a miserable feeling, chasing numbers, producing and contributing nothing real to humanity. I bet it is better for happiness and mental health to stay away from all that.

> What a miserable feeling, chasing numbers, producing and contributing nothing real to humanity.

You just described 80% of financial services...

Re: An epidemic of fake influencers and the death of meritocracy

#94

Post by marcus_holmes »

I'm currently doing the Digital Nomad thing, wandering around the world building a product.

So many "influencers" out there. Usually not only "growing their audience", but now running courses on "how to live your dream by becoming an Instagram Influencer while travelling". The industry appears to be eating itself (this is also true of the nomad thing, too - so many "coaches" and "mentors" out there who will teach you how to achieve the "nomad lifestyle").

I'm in the lucky position of being able to code for decent money while travelling, so I get to watch them hustle their arses off trying to make it work. I would not want to be in their position. The market is declining, the competitors are increasing, and the option of going home and getting a "normal" job again feels like total failure.

I get the rage in TFA's article, but all I feel is pity.

Re: An epidemic of fake influencers and the death of meritocracy

#95

Post by thatfrenchguy »

Jedi72 wrote: post #92
CptFribble wrote: post #76

Apologies if this is too meta, but all the claims of "ugh so glad I don't care about social media" and "what do influencers am I right????" feel really, really disingenuous on a forum run by a silicon valley incubator, where discussions of building products that run on advertisements regularly take place. I think there's a deeper truth that most people, including us here on HN, don't want to admit: humans are at not…

There is a deeper truth that marketing people (like yourself I am guessing?) don't want to admit: what you do is wrong. To it's very core. You're attempting to take away people's free will, using the dirtiest tactics one could imagine. Emotional manipulation, exploiting peoples insecurities, their need to feel a certain level of status from their peers: these are staple tactics of a marketer, and social media influen…

Free will is highly overstated though: as the parent comment said, everything you think and believe and thus do is linked to a particular social context. That's true for the stuff you buy, the stuff you believe in, the things you think are "wrong" or "right" or "normal" or "abnormal". When you start looking/living in other societies you realise that all of these is just cultural norms.

Re: An epidemic of fake influencers and the death of meritocracy

#96

Post by conanbatt »

jrochkind1 wrote: post #71

The OP is suggesting that some "influencers" who get paid to say/show they like something on instagram are "fake" because... they mislead the people who pay them about how many 'followers' they have? But other people are more "authentically" doing paid product placement, still without necessarily disclosing that to those they "influence"? I am unimpressed. It sounds like they're saying that only some people truly hav…

As an advertiser, you are definitely getting defrauded.

Re: An epidemic of fake influencers and the death of meritocracy

#98

Post by ip26 »

Jedi72 wrote: post #92
CptFribble wrote: post #76

Apologies if this is too meta, but all the claims of "ugh so glad I don't care about social media" and "what do influencers am I right????" feel really, really disingenuous on a forum run by a silicon valley incubator, where discussions of building products that run on advertisements regularly take place. I think there's a deeper truth that most people, including us here on HN, don't want to admit: humans are at not…

There is a deeper truth that marketing people (like yourself I am guessing?) don't want to admit: what you do is wrong. To it's very core. You're attempting to take away people's free will, using the dirtiest tactics one could imagine. Emotional manipulation, exploiting peoples insecurities, their need to feel a certain level of status from their peers: these are staple tactics of a marketer, and social media influen…

Marketing isn't intrinsically evil. The positive side, for example, might be showing people how great switching to wireless headphones is going to be, (justifying the expense) and then hey what do you know these really are awesome!

Marketing at its best is helping people see how a product fills a need or makes their life better in a way that might not have been clear at first.

Re: An epidemic of fake influencers and the death of meritocracy

#99

Post by nilskidoo »

ip26 wrote: post #98
Jedi72 wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a deeper truth that marketing people (like yourself I am guessing?) don't want to admit: what you do is wrong. To it's very core. You're attempting to take away people's free will, using the dirtiest tactics one could imagine. Emotional manipulation, exploiting peoples insecurities, their need to feel a certain level of status from their peers: these are staple tactics of a marketer, and social media influen…

Marketing isn't intrinsically evil. The positive side, for example, might be showing people how great switching to wireless headphones is going to be, (justifying the expense) and then hey what do you know these really are awesome! Marketing at its best is helping people see how a product fills a need or makes their life better in a way that might not have been clear at first.

If people honestly wanted or needed a particular thing, then marketing would be irrelevant. We've been manufacturing demand to meet supply for decades now. It is fundamentally a disingenuous act.

Re: An epidemic of fake influencers and the death of meritocracy

#100

Post by csa »

Jedi72 wrote: post #92
CptFribble wrote: post #76

Apologies if this is too meta, but all the claims of "ugh so glad I don't care about social media" and "what do influencers am I right????" feel really, really disingenuous on a forum run by a silicon valley incubator, where discussions of building products that run on advertisements regularly take place. I think there's a deeper truth that most people, including us here on HN, don't want to admit: humans are at not…

There is a deeper truth that marketing people (like yourself I am guessing?) don't want to admit: what you do is wrong. To it's very core. You're attempting to take away people's free will, using the dirtiest tactics one could imagine. Emotional manipulation, exploiting peoples insecurities, their need to feel a certain level of status from their peers: these are staple tactics of a marketer, and social media influen…

> what you do is wrong. To it's very core. You're attempting to take away people's free will, using the dirtiest tactics one could imagine. Emotional manipulation, exploiting peoples insecurities, their need to feel a certain level of status from their peers: these are staple tactics of a marketer

For the record, this is not what marketing professionals do. What you are talking about is somewhere between black-hat advertising and lifestyle advertising (which is much deeper than "manipulation").

I personally like 'tptacek's definition of marketing (at least within the tech area he was in at the time):

> Marketing is product definition, awareness, lead gen, conversion, and then the measurement and improvement of same.

From: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1024678

That definition describes the field much more reasonably.

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