Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

US Workers Are Highly Taxed If You Count Premiums

peoplespolicyproject.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

211–220 of 534 posts

Re: US Workers Are Highly Taxed If You Count Premiums

#211

Post by AnthonyMouse »

throwaway284721 wrote: post #106
rhacker wrote: post #87

Like to bring this up when we talk taxes: I think it's totally crazy that we give the feds 25% or more and our states soo soo sooooo much less. I think it should be the other way around: 5% for the feds, and maybe 20% to the states. The reason is that our cities are filled with bums, and have absolutely no money to either give them jobs or make new programs. The feds don't give a shit and are busy making missiles or…

The reason for this is that if one state has better social programs then another and higher taxes the poorest are going to move there, and the high earners are going to move away.

This doesn't seem to be a major problem for the EU, which has unrestricted internal migration but social programs are administered by the individual member states.

The idea that the poor will mass migrate to California and the rich will mass migrate to South Dakota is pretty unrealistic. The poor can't afford to live in California even with social assistance, and the rich don't want to live in South Dakota no matter how low the taxes are.

Because money buys stuff taxpayers want. Middle class people want good schools and functioning transit and to know they're going to have a secure retirement. The premise of having the government do these things is that they can do them at least as well as the market. If they succeed they'll have no trouble attracting people to come there and pay taxes in exchange for receiving those services. If they fail and are then out-competed by other states that do better, whether by leaving things to the market or otherwise, isn't that a good thing? It requires the underperforming states to improve or lose population.

Re: US Workers Are Highly Taxed If You Count Premiums

#212

Post by gwright »

perfmode wrote: post #50
tathougies wrote: post #34

Individual US tax payers pay for most of the world's security. This is one tax of being the global super power, so it's not particularly surprising that when you include all things the US tax payer pays for privately that is taxed in other countries, you arrive at a number higher than other similar countries. In reality, there is no country with which we can fairly compare US tax rates.

I wouldn’t say the United States provides security when our actions and interventions tend to not be just. We are just a Mafia.

For all the situations in which you feel like the US was not justified in its actions, have you considered all the ramifications of alternative actions? And what about all the situations where its actions were justified but would not have been possible had the US military not been funded as it has been historically?

How would the USSR have evolved without the US security presence in Europe since WWII?

How would China have evolved without the US deep-water navel presence in the Pacific? Without the US support for Taiwan?

How do you value the success of South Korea in the presence of US troops?

What would have happened in the Middle East if the the US hadn't supported Israel or pushed back on Saddam Hussein in Iraq?

I'm not trying to justify any or all US actions, just trying to point out that any evaluation of the US military's impact over the last 100 years is going to be more complex than suggested by your comment.

Re: US Workers Are Highly Taxed If You Count Premiums

#213

Post by rch »

bilbo0s wrote: post #146
AlexTWithBeard wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand, a typical state college is closer to $10,000. Yes, it's not Ivy League, but it does the job.

I wonder if 10 thousand is a lot for undergraduate education to a German, or Austrian, or French person? EDIT: Doh! Just checked the cost of undergrad in some of those nations. Umm, Yeah. I guess if I were a German or French guy, I'd likely find tuition levels in the US a bit outrageous.

In the Swiss system (as I understand it) it's about $600 to attend classes, but if you don't hit the minimum on the semester exams twice, then you're done in the country.

If you miss it the first round then there is a massive incentive to transfer or find an easier program, otherwise you face the prospect of being forced to go abroad to complete a degree.

Re: US Workers Are Highly Taxed If You Count Premiums

#214

Post by [deleted] »

AlexTWithBeard wrote: post #124
rhacker wrote: post #87

Like to bring this up when we talk taxes: I think it's totally crazy that we give the feds 25% or more and our states soo soo sooooo much less. I think it should be the other way around: 5% for the feds, and maybe 20% to the states. The reason is that our cities are filled with bums, and have absolutely no money to either give them jobs or make new programs. The feds don't give a shit and are busy making missiles or…

our cities are filled with bums, and have absolutely no money to either give them jobs or make new programs. New York City spends about $30k per homeless and you still cannot walk a block without seeing one. It's not about the money...

[deleted]

Re: US Workers Are Highly Taxed If You Count Premiums

#215

Post by splintercell »

mikeash wrote: post #72
vonmoltke wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In the US you can happy if your cost for seeing a doctor is less than 4 digits. My wife and I have never paid four figures for a doctor visit, despite having two surgeries (one oral), a calf strain, and a dislocated shoulder (with ER visit) between us. The state of medical care in the US is bad enough as it is; you don't need to make up hyperbolic bullshit to make it seem worse.

I went to the ER thinking I was having a heart attack, and it turned out there was nothing wrong. The doctor who saw me afterwards thought it might have been intestinal spams. I got to pay $6,000 for that bit of entertainment.

I really don't understand this 'labor theory of value' thinking.

Just because there wasn't anything wrong doesn't mean you don't have to pay a person for their services.

Re: US Workers Are Highly Taxed If You Count Premiums

#216

Post by TallGuyShort »

Someone1234 wrote: post #19

I moved to the US from a country with socialised medicine. When you include premiums then taxes in both were roughly similar if not a little higher in the US (ignoring cost of living differences). But even that doesn't include the real sting on the tail of US medicine. You pay a fairly high health insurance premium, but if you actually need health services you then pay again through the nose even with insurance "disc…

Can't even find out what stuff costs beforehand either. I had to get a blood test. I had gotten burned before where my insurance said they covered a physical, but it turns out their definition of a physical didn't include the doctor's definition, which included blood tests. So before I had my blood drawn, I asked them to tell me what the tests would cost if my insurance didn't cover it. "It depends on how it's coded," they said. So I asked them to check how it was coded and tell me what the "code" cost. They looked it up. It was coded wrong, apparently. They would have to talk to the doctor and couldn't, so I would need to make a return appointment, or I could just let them draw my blood. Still don't know what the coding was or was supposed to be, or really what that even means. I just needed to get life insurance and get back to work. I found out the price once I was billed for it.

Re: US Workers Are Highly Taxed If You Count Premiums

#217

Post by droithomme »

morsma wrote: post #130
mschuetz wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, and cost of health insurance in Austria is just 7,65% of your income, and it covers your children. When I've worked in the US, I've paid just as much for health insurance and still had high out-of-pockets and deductibles on top of that.

For me it's the opposite. I moved from Denmark to the US, and I pay around $400 in health insurance premiums (health, eye, and dental) for a whole family. In Denmark, only health is covered, so for eye and dental many go out-of-country to get it cheap. The US is much cheaper for all health insurances, except if your poor. Obama tried to fix that, but made it worse and more expensive for everyone (socialism).

> I pay around $400 in health insurance premiums (health, eye, and dental) for a whole family

I would love to pay $400 a month for health care for my entire family all inclusive in the US! Can you please state the name of your insurance company and your specific policy so I can get this too? My rate is over $20,000 a year right now so that would be a tremendous savings. Thank you so much!

Re: US Workers Are Highly Taxed If You Count Premiums

#218

Post by nightski »

illirik wrote: post #163
AlexTWithBeard wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand, a typical state college is closer to $10,000. Yes, it's not Ivy League, but it does the job.

Including room, board, and books, you're looking at something in the $20,000 range, and it varies a lot by state. If you live in Virginia, for example, undergraduate total cost of attendance for UVA is around $32,000 ( https://sfs.virginia.edu/cost/18-19 ). EDIT: There is also the case where you may live in a state with insufficient opportunities for higher education. For example, neither of North Dakota's two public…

I went out of state for university. But I do live in the ND/MN region and I can tell you I know an entire community of NDSU computer science students who graduated and now make over 6 figures. Sure they say it wasn't amazing, but it got the job done for really cheap. Also NDSU is only 7k per year in state before assistance. No idea where you are getting the 20k figure from.

You'd probably have access to a better education at U of M in Minneapolis. But it's going to be quite a bit more expensive and I'm not sure it would have that large effect on your career.

Re: US Workers Are Highly Taxed If You Count Premiums

#219

Post by Simon_says »

lhorie wrote: post #134
wirrbel wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a basic visit. I attended a first-aid training for new parents here in my home country and the general advice was to seek help if in doubt, at night times by calling an ambulance or visiting, well, the emergency room. In two years we were there with our baby two times. Not charged a penny. During this time, I went once, my wife went once. In all instances we were reassured that it was appropriate to visit the h…

Yeah, taking a kid with a high fever to the ER in Toronto is a total no-brainer since it's 100% covered by OHIP. Now living in SF, and I've found myself mentally doing risk probability calculations, and concluding I'd be better off skipping the ER and instead following the instructions from off-the-shelf motrin because the ER visit is likely not worth the cost. My wife firmly believes the US healthcare system is a gi…

It wasn't worth the cost in Toronto, either, but you didn't care because it wasn't you who paid the cost.

Re: US Workers Are Highly Taxed If You Count Premiums

#220

Post by Scoundreller »

enraged_camel wrote: post #103
exodus_de wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My family in Germany throws a fit when they have to pay 50 Euro for something. Socialized insurance rates in Germany are 15% of income. Unless your family doesn't earn any money, they have been paying far more than 50 Euros. > In the US you can happy if your cost for seeing a doctor is less than 4 digits. That isn't generally true. Every insurance plan is different. Cheap plans have a high deductible. It's similar…

>>Socialized insurance rates in Germany are 15% of income. Unless your family doesn't earn any money, they have been paying far more than 50 Euros. Comments like this always miss the larger point, which is that healthcare overall is cheaper in socialized systems because the government as a large entity negotiates on behalf of citizens and puts strong downward pressure on prices.

Meanwhile, US governments pay more per capita for healthcare than other "socialized medicine countries", but with terrible clinical outcomes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_hea...

Post reply on HN