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US Workers Are Highly Taxed If You Count Premiums

peoplespolicyproject.org

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Re: US Workers Are Highly Taxed If You Count Premiums

#191

Post by bilbo0s »

jedberg wrote: post #185
rhacker wrote: post #87

Like to bring this up when we talk taxes: I think it's totally crazy that we give the feds 25% or more and our states soo soo sooooo much less. I think it should be the other way around: 5% for the feds, and maybe 20% to the states. The reason is that our cities are filled with bums, and have absolutely no money to either give them jobs or make new programs. The feds don't give a shit and are busy making missiles or…

The whole point of allowing people to deduct their state tax payments was to solve exactly this problem. Let the states that want to tax more and provide more social services do so without harm to their citizens. Of course that deduction is gone now, which just further solidifies government power.

My own suspicion is that we got rid of that because government wants to harm the citizens of certain states. That's likely one of the benefits of having federal power, the ability structure the system to perpetuate your hold on it. In the US, our politicians do this all the time.

Re: US Workers Are Highly Taxed If You Count Premiums

#192

Post by silotis »

munk-a wrote: post #177
silotis wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The SS trust fund is an accounting fiction. The vast majority of it is held as treasury securities and the cash has long since been spent. Thus the federal government has offsetting liabilities for all of those assets. Once SS starts spending more than it takes in, the feds will have to raise capital to cover the shortfall, same as if the trust fund did not exist.

Sorry, this comment missed a big point - the money wasn't spent on Social Security, the money has been borrowed by other agencies and expenditures that owe it back. That's like saying "Oh man, your job isn't paying you enough money, you should quit." 'But I make 80k, that's plenty!' "Oh, you uh did, until I stole all but five dollars." 'Oh darn, guess I'll quit then.'

I'm well aware that the money was dumped into the general fund and spent on other things. That doesn't change the fact that the money is gone, so saying that the trust fund has $3 trillion doesn't really help with SS's fiscal viability.

Re: US Workers Are Highly Taxed If You Count Premiums

#194

Post by bradknowles »

jimbokun wrote: post #183
analog31 wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Somebody's gouging us. Who? Everybody cries poor and points the finger at everybody else. Nobody knows where the money is actually going.

Doctors? Seems to be a huge reluctance for anyone in politics to place the blame on them. But I'm pretty sure they make far more in the US than anywhere else in the world.

And they pay huge amounts of their income to malpractice insurance.

Hmm. There's that word "insurance" again.

Re: US Workers Are Highly Taxed If You Count Premiums

#195

Post by tibiahurried »

Someone1234 wrote: post #19

I moved to the US from a country with socialised medicine. When you include premiums then taxes in both were roughly similar if not a little higher in the US (ignoring cost of living differences). But even that doesn't include the real sting on the tail of US medicine. You pay a fairly high health insurance premium, but if you actually need health services you then pay again through the nose even with insurance "disc…

I agree. I think in US you pay a lot of taxes to get pretty much nothing in return. You have no universal healthcare, students have to make huge debts to be able to study, there is no maternity leave, no support for childcare, seriously there is basically no welfare whatsoever. Not to mention property taxes (at least in California) that are outrageous.

And if you get seriously ill and lose your job you are pretty much ... done! oO

Re: US Workers Are Highly Taxed If You Count Premiums

#196

Post by silotis »

mikeash wrote: post #167
silotis wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The SS trust fund is an accounting fiction. The vast majority of it is held as treasury securities and the cash has long since been spent. Thus the federal government has offsetting liabilities for all of those assets. Once SS starts spending more than it takes in, the feds will have to raise capital to cover the shortfall, same as if the trust fund did not exist.

If a private company holds treasury securities, we don’t call that a fiction. What’s the difference?

It's different because the private company didn't issue the securities itself. The equivalent for a private company would be creating $3 trillion in bonds, "selling" the bonds to itself, then claiming to have $3 trillion.

Re: US Workers Are Highly Taxed If You Count Premiums

#197

Post by tibiahurried »

jakobegger wrote: post #92
Someone1234 wrote: post #19

I moved to the US from a country with socialised medicine. When you include premiums then taxes in both were roughly similar if not a little higher in the US (ignoring cost of living differences). But even that doesn't include the real sting on the tail of US medicine. You pay a fairly high health insurance premium, but if you actually need health services you then pay again through the nose even with insurance "disc…

As a point of comparison, in Austria: - taking a kid to the ER costs nothing - taking a kid to a GP or a pediatrician costs nothing - staying a night at the hospital costs around 15€ - getting a prescription from the pharmacy costs 5€

I think you can easily extend that to pretty much the entire EU.

Re: US Workers Are Highly Taxed If You Count Premiums

#198

Post by [deleted] »

vonmoltke wrote: post #68
maxxxxx wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My family in Germany throws a fit when they have to pay 50 Euro for something. In the US you can happy if your cost for seeing a doctor is less than 4 digits.

> In the US you can happy if your cost for seeing a doctor is less than 4 digits. My wife and I have never paid four figures for a doctor visit, despite having two surgeries (one oral), a calf strain, and a dislocated shoulder (with ER visit) between us. The state of medical care in the US is bad enough as it is; you don't need to make up hyperbolic bullshit to make it seem worse.

[deleted]

Re: US Workers Are Highly Taxed If You Count Premiums

#199

Post by xienze »

shams93 wrote: post #112
jakobegger wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a point of comparison, in Austria: - taking a kid to the ER costs nothing - taking a kid to a GP or a pediatrician costs nothing - staying a night at the hospital costs around 15€ - getting a prescription from the pharmacy costs 5€

Then there's education costs in the US, say you want your kid to go to CalArts, that's $50,000 a year just for tuition, so your kid gets out of school $500k in debt with a degree in performance art and a $3,000 a month student loan payment for life.

And the real tuition is that high is because there’s an endless supply of students willing to dump insane amounts of money into a degree program that will, at best, lead to a $40k/year job. Cut the head off the snake and things will come back to earth.

Re: US Workers Are Highly Taxed If You Count Premiums

#200

Post by ishjoh »

maxxxxx wrote: post #42
munk-a wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or really any public pension. I feel like if you're <40 then you should be planning for Social Security to not exist when you get old, anything else seems overly optimistic.

" Social Security to not exist when you get old," that's totally self defeating. There are simple adjustments that can be done to make it viable long term. But there are quite few people in DC who desperately want it to fail to show that government is no good.

Social Security is so popular that either party trying to cut benefits will be voted out at the next election, especially if the other party runs on restoring it. So instead of cutting benefits to those currently receiving it, instead there will be a call to increase the retirement age. This is already happening in Denmark where the retirement age will be 67 by 2022 and after 2030 could be increased 1 year every 5 years.
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