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I Lied When I Said We Did Everything We Could

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Re: I Lied When I Said We Did Everything We Could

#311

Post by jnurmine »

mustacheemperor wrote: post #200
learc83 wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>This is true. I think that it's also a religious thing as well, and almost Christians. Other religions are more accepting of death. In my own experience growing up in church as a pastor's kid and attending a lot of funerals, people at Christian funerals tend to be a lot more accepting/less obviously distressed than people at non-religious memorial services. I think what you're describing has more to do with the Amer…

>American scientific optimism of the 50s and 60s Sam Altman says he “fully expects” his brain to be uploaded to the cloud someday[0]. Is it any different this time, or do humans always delude ourselves about our mortality? [0] https://www.technologyreview.com/s/610456/a-startup-is-pitch...

It is simply a modern version of "afterlife", expressed in modern terms, but nevertheless the same idea.

Re: I Lied When I Said We Did Everything We Could

#312

Post by dunnevens »

learc83 wrote: post #253
dunnevens wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We apparently had vastly different experiences within the same denomination. Prayers were almost always for healing. Repentence almost never came into it as the subject of the prayers was usually "saved". Nor were the prayers for being reunited in heaven because that was assumed to be a given. Feeding into all of this were the half-baked stories from the pulpit of healing. Of some miraculous last minute renewal of he…

>Prayers were almost always for healing. Repentence almost never came into it as the subject of the prayers was usually "saved". Nor were the prayers for being reunited in heaven because that was assumed to be a given. I didn't mean the focus of prayers. I meant the overall focus--sermons, Sunday school etc... >Feeding into all of this were the half-baked stories from the pulpit of healing. Of some miraculous last mi…

Not charismatic in the slightest. But my church definitely put the "Southern" in Southern Baptist. Very folksy at times. And when I say "healing", it was always healing from God. There was no belief in faith healing.

And on top of all that, I sometimes conflate my "church" memories with school. I was sent to a strict Baptist Christian school. A very conservative and horrible place which often made my church look like a bunch of hippies by comparison. Sometimes the terrible theology from one bleeds into the other.

Re: I Lied When I Said We Did Everything We Could

#313

Post by pdonis »

diminoten wrote: post #295
pdonis wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> we're being sold a bill of goods by doctors about "peaceful death" because it makes their lives easier to think about, at the cost of giving up earlier on patients At last, an actual substantive statement. But unfortunately, it's still your opinion. I have no problem at all with you choosing to fight to the last and continuing to seek treatments right to the end even if you are diagnosed with a terminal illness whe…

So to be clear, you can obviously see when I'm expressing my opinion, but due to semantics of English, you demand I express it in a way that doesn't offend you? Jesus dude, why the fuck would anyone listen to that level of hubris? What the hell kind of incentives are you giving me here, because right now my only incentive is to laugh at the person who can't actually have a conversation because they're too busy derail…

> So to be clear, you can obviously see when I'm expressing my opinion, but due to semantics of English, you demand I express it in a way that doesn't offend you?

It has nothing to do with offending anyone. (Note that I explicitly said that rudeness was not the issue). It has nothing to do with how you presented what you said. It has to do with the substance of what you said--your accusation of lying--being unjustified.

Re: I Lied When I Said We Did Everything We Could

#314

Post by pdonis »

diminoten wrote: post #303
pdonis wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it's a lie to say that death is peace No, it's your opinion that death is not peace. "Peace" is not a word with a single fixed meaning, so you have no basis for saying that other people are lying when they express the opinion that death is peace. All you can say is that your opinion disagrees with theirs. > Rudimentary philosophy will help you understand this conversation, as it covers fairly extensively the truth/…

Yes, I literally do, because words have meanings and death does not mean peace, in any sense of the word. It may be peace for those still living, but for the person who is actually dead, it's not peace, it's literal nothingness for all eternity. There isn't peace in that, no matter how semantic you want to get.

> words have meanings and death does not mean peace, in any sense of the word

That's your opinion. Other people have different opinions. You don't get to declare by fiat what the meanings of words are.

Re: I Lied When I Said We Did Everything We Could

#315

Post by pdonis »

diminoten wrote: post #296
pdonis wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm pointing out facts that disprove those opinions You have pointed out no fact that justifies your accusation of lying.

Ah so now you rope back around to the actual conversation. Nope, you've poisoned this well too much with your semantic nonsense, you don't deserve to benefit from anything I have to say about death.

> you don't deserve to benefit from anything I have to say about death

You've already said what you have to say about death pretty clearly, so if I were going to derive any benefit from it, I would have already done so. But if it will set your mind at rest, no, I haven't derived any benefit from what you have to say about death.

Re: I Lied When I Said We Did Everything We Could

#316

Post by pdonis »

diminoten wrote: post #295
pdonis wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> we're being sold a bill of goods by doctors about "peaceful death" because it makes their lives easier to think about, at the cost of giving up earlier on patients At last, an actual substantive statement. But unfortunately, it's still your opinion. I have no problem at all with you choosing to fight to the last and continuing to seek treatments right to the end even if you are diagnosed with a terminal illness whe…

So to be clear, you can obviously see when I'm expressing my opinion, but due to semantics of English, you demand I express it in a way that doesn't offend you? Jesus dude, why the fuck would anyone listen to that level of hubris? What the hell kind of incentives are you giving me here, because right now my only incentive is to laugh at the person who can't actually have a conversation because they're too busy derail…

> you can obviously see when I'm expressing my opinion

Yes, exactly, which is why I keep objecting when you express your opinion but then treat it as if it were fact.

Re: I Lied When I Said We Did Everything We Could

#317

Post by GalacticDomin8r »

learc83 wrote: post #254
GalacticDomin8r wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It’s definitely not evidence of wide scale Christian refusal to accept death. True if you are speaking only of the events you described. However you left out the national debate(and I use that word loosely) over the matter. That was evidence of wide scale Christian refusal to accept death. It took the typical form of the extremists appealing to and living under the shield of the larger group of religious believers…

The national debate was mostly pro-life groups trying to spin the situation for political gain. And even among those groups, I don't remember it being a common argument that she should live because God would miraculously heal her. The argument was that (they believed) she was still conscious and that her life was still worth living.

> The national debate was mostly pro-life groups trying to spin the situation for political gain.

That is what I would call a distinction without a difference. The underlying motivation for those actors is still the same no matter you call it religion or politics. They appealed to the identity of the religious and largely got the response they wanted. Same thing Russia did with BLM except Russia was inciting both sides.

Christian's believe in miracles/supernatural by definition. This includes faith healing. It absolutely prevalent everywhere in the religion and its different sects. The Terri Schiavo incident was not specially exempt from this belief.

Re: I Lied When I Said We Did Everything We Could

#318

Post by metildaa »

JshWright wrote: post #281
metildaa wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the provider, this was primarily a reference to the potential emotional rollercoaster of CPR (depending on how empathetic you are).

That really hasn't been my experience. There certainly can be hard emotions surrounding the event (telling someone their loved one has died, etc), but CPR itself is pretty straightforward.

Definitely, I agree that the physical act of CPR is straightforward.

Re: I Lied When I Said We Did Everything We Could

#319

Post by diminoten »

pdonis wrote: post #313
diminoten wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So to be clear, you can obviously see when I'm expressing my opinion, but due to semantics of English, you demand I express it in a way that doesn't offend you? Jesus dude, why the fuck would anyone listen to that level of hubris? What the hell kind of incentives are you giving me here, because right now my only incentive is to laugh at the person who can't actually have a conversation because they're too busy derail…

> So to be clear, you can obviously see when I'm expressing my opinion, but due to semantics of English, you demand I express it in a way that doesn't offend you? It has nothing to do with offending anyone. (Note that I explicitly said that rudeness was not the issue). It has nothing to do with how you presented what you said. It has to do with the substance of what you said--your accusation of lying--being unjustifi…

It's not unjustified, and even if it was, a belief can still be true or false.

Again, I urge you to read about epistemological knowledge. Basic philosophy concept that will educate you.

Re: I Lied When I Said We Did Everything We Could

#320

Post by pygy_ »

Pxtl wrote: post #162
cableshaft wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You probably do have asthma. I'm a lifelong asthmatic and what you're describing is me on a rare bad day (it didn't used to be as rare as a kid, but is more rare for me in adulthood). You should probably get a second opinion, and an inhaler, peak flow meter, and a nebulizer as soon as you can. I got worried about life expectancy for asthmatics recently, and it seems like, generally speaking, as long as it's well trea…

My attacks are very rare - basically only brought on by extreme spring cleaning without a dust mask (dust allergies), and I have a corticosteroid inhaler that I take through allergy season. Either way, I'll have another conversation with my doctor. My understanding was that asthma was generally a lifelong thing - my breathing was fine until I was around 30.

There are two components to asthma: bronchial hyper-reactivity, and trigger factors. Trigger factors comprise allergies, physical effort, cold air, depending on the person.

Allergies often get better with age, but their exact pathophysiology is not well understood.

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