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Paint Is Colored Glue

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Re: Paint Is Colored Glue

#31
post #6

I remember being quite blown away as a 20 year old during a trip to Paris by some of the paintings in the Louvre and the Musée d'Orsay. I had known many of these paintings before, from Wikipedia and school books, but it seems to be impossible to capture the effect of an oil painting in a digital or reproduced image, because, as the article describes, an oil painting is essentially 3-dimensional. (I also distinctly re…

I can highly recommend John Berger's legendary documentary series Ways Of Seeing . The first episode explores precisely this issue - how our perception of painting is affected by reproduction. It has perhaps the most arresting opening scene of any documentary series. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0pDE4VX_9Kk

Ah, yes, I watched this series a few years ago and just realized that it may have inspired my post above a bit.

PS: I just shamelessly throw in another excellent BBC documentary series here: How Buildings Learn, by Stewart Brand [0]. I sometimes see it mentioned here on HN, but it cannot be mentioned too often. If you haven't seen it, please please do.

[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvEqfg2sIH0

Re: Paint Is Colored Glue

#32
I run a paint production company here in Italy (decorative for interior/exterior house use, and various kinds of high-grade industrial coatings) so this article (not to mention the fact that it somehow climbed it was to the top of the front page) amuses me no end.

I've forwarded it to all of my colleagues and they'll all in stitches too. Because basically deep down we know this is the most succinct and relatable description of what we do with our lives. Try as we might to aggrandise things, this is the truth stripped bare.

Unvarnished truth, even. ;)

Re: Paint Is Colored Glue

#33

Paint, as understood by oil painters and artists, sounds like a slightly different animal than paint as understood by house painters, wood finishers, and other sorts of people with more prosaic requirements of their paints. Bob Flexner wrote a book for wood finishers, Understanding Wood Finishing, that breaks down oil paint in simple terms for the rest of us: Some oils (like linseed and walnut) are drying oils, and c…

Not a direct response, but in the case of modern automotive paints, especially 2 part urethane or epoxy ones it is exactly right - they're even based on the same chemicals!

Of course, that doesn't really mean that paints work as glues, but you can add pigment/dye to a lot of glues and get a workable paint. (workable in the sense that they will adhere and color. they may not have the consistency that makes them work well as a paint).

Re: Paint Is Colored Glue

#34
post #9
post #6

I remember being quite blown away as a 20 year old during a trip to Paris by some of the paintings in the Louvre and the Musée d'Orsay. I had known many of these paintings before, from Wikipedia and school books, but it seems to be impossible to capture the effect of an oil painting in a digital or reproduced image, because, as the article describes, an oil painting is essentially 3-dimensional. (I also distinctly re…

> (I also distinctly remember being shocked by the size of some paintings, especially the crowning of Napoleon ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coronation_of_Napoleon_I#/medi... ) This painting was printed in many of my history school books, but I was not even remotely aware that is nearly 10 meters wide.) And yet, it's the postal stamp-sized Mona Lisa that gets all the attention... Sure, it's a good painting, but I p…

There's a place for both. Rothko's Seagram Murals are bland and unremarkable in the pages of a book, but become utterly overwhelming in person due to their sheer scale. Conversely, Sir Charles Bell's watercolour sketches of battlefield wounds are so affecting on part because of their small size. When stooping over to peer at these pocket notebook sketches, you are transported to a field hospital in Waterloo, standing over the shoulder of Bell as he quickly but expertly records the carnage of war in intimate detail.

Re: Paint Is Colored Glue

#35
"The effect of layering is so powerful that it has transcended its roots in painting with oils and is now in­corporated into all professional digital illustration tools. If you use Photoshop, or Illustrator, or any other computer graphics tools, you'll be making images in layers."

The layering described there, is more about what blend modes are for, layering can also be quite dumb by itself. The roots of DTP software layers lie pretty much all in the necessities of print, not painting, where you have to have a layer per color anyway.

Wondering why the article stops short of the point, why (digital) reproduction of paintings is a lossy process in general, and especially for archiving. Total Appearance Capture systems exist but are rarely applied to paintings. A 2D-RGB raster can only represent the appearance of a light reflective object from a single angle und very specific ambient conditions. How a painting interacts with light in a room is a complex process of all kinds of optical phenomena (reflection, absorbtion, diffraction, refraction ...) as described in the arcticle.

Re: Paint Is Colored Glue

#36

Paint, as understood by oil painters and artists, sounds like a slightly different animal than paint as understood by house painters, wood finishers, and other sorts of people with more prosaic requirements of their paints. Bob Flexner wrote a book for wood finishers, Understanding Wood Finishing, that breaks down oil paint in simple terms for the rest of us: Some oils (like linseed and walnut) are drying oils, and c…

The Chem Engineer finds terms like Resin, useless.

It's kind of like saying, tape.

Which tape? Easy peel? Or duct tape?

I imagine that this is possible because there is only one type of resin that's useful in this field. Or trade secrets...

Re: Paint Is Colored Glue

#37
Labor has become more expensive than parts, for many aspects of home repair. We haven't adapted our habits to this.

The last time I let my university landlord paint my apartment, it took days to clear the furniture, and I was instructed to do no paint prep. There were peels coming down from the ceiling. The painters exploited this "paint is glue" theory by painting under the peels and pushing them flat. I channeled my desire to kill them on the spot by politely escorted them out in mid-job and never letting anyone paint for me again.

The next time I painted this apartment, I stripped the ceiling bare of its many poorly applied layers, and applied $500 of artist-grade acrylic primer and titanium white paint to the ceiling and walls. 15 years later, the apartment looks just-painted. Artist-grade acrylic paint is one of the best glues available, much more reliably so than oil paint.

In the years since, the best wall paints have come closer to artist-grade acrylic paints, and their glues are likely better tuned to typical conditions. Artist paint is more expensive and better. Carefully tuning a cheap glue is like botching an airplane hardware design and trying to fix it in software.

Later in a home, filling holes in contractor botched cabinet work, I started with artist-grade acrylic modeling putty, added just enough dye from the commercial paint manufacturer to match the existing cabinet paint, tweaked the gloss to also match, and created a one-step wood fill that disappeared into the existing paint job when dry. Much less shrinkage than commercial wood fills, and no primer or repainting needed. Again, acrylic art supplies making the best glue.

Re: Paint Is Colored Glue

#38

Paint, as understood by oil painters and artists, sounds like a slightly different animal than paint as understood by house painters, wood finishers, and other sorts of people with more prosaic requirements of their paints. Bob Flexner wrote a book for wood finishers, Understanding Wood Finishing, that breaks down oil paint in simple terms for the rest of us: Some oils (like linseed and walnut) are drying oils, and c…

The Chem Engineer finds terms like Resin, useless. It's kind of like saying, tape. Which tape? Easy peel? Or duct tape? I imagine that this is possible because there is only one type of resin that's useful in this field. Or trade secrets...

There are many different types of bases ("resins") many of which are incompatible which each other, and can neither be mixed nor painted over. E.g. even acrylic lacquers, you can make them as a dispersion (i.e. water based) or using a solvent. Different paints. Not compatible. Both are "acrylic".

Re: Paint Is Colored Glue

#39
post #6

I remember being quite blown away as a 20 year old during a trip to Paris by some of the paintings in the Louvre and the Musée d'Orsay. I had known many of these paintings before, from Wikipedia and school books, but it seems to be impossible to capture the effect of an oil painting in a digital or reproduced image, because, as the article describes, an oil painting is essentially 3-dimensional. (I also distinctly re…

I read a book about the Revolutionary War called "Washington's Crossing" by David Hackett Fischer. The wrap-around cover of the book is, appropriately, the iconic painting "Washington Crossing the Delaware" by Emanuel Leutze (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_Crossing_the_Delawa...).

I learned that the actual painting was nearby in NYC at The Met. When a friend visited, I wanted one of my goals was to go to The Met and see the painting. I entered the American Wing close enough to closing time that I worried I may not find the painting in time. I started wandering, turned a corner, and sat dumfounded starting at the very thing I was looking for, sitting 21 feet in width at the end of the hall.

Re: Paint Is Colored Glue

#40

Paint, as understood by oil painters and artists, sounds like a slightly different animal than paint as understood by house painters, wood finishers, and other sorts of people with more prosaic requirements of their paints. Bob Flexner wrote a book for wood finishers, Understanding Wood Finishing, that breaks down oil paint in simple terms for the rest of us: Some oils (like linseed and walnut) are drying oils, and c…

From what I know about wood finishers/lacquerers, their requirements seem anything but prosaic, there's a whole science behind it - especially for those in business of refurbishing old/antique furniture.
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