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Facebook are 'morally bankrupt liars' says New Zealand's privacy commissioner

theguardian.com

301–310 of 353 posts

Re: Facebook are 'morally bankrupt liars' says New Zealand's privacy commissioner

#301
post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they don't know what's being posted, maybe they should change how their platform works? If a normal business behaved like this and then just shrugged their shoulders, no one would stand for it. A traditional broadcaster would have their licence revoked. A print publisher would be in serious trouble. But when it happens online, somehow it's someone else's problem. This seems odd to me.

> If a normal business behaved like this and then just shrugged their shoulders, no one would stand for it That's not quite true. No one blames the US postal service for death threats sent in the mail. Facebook is not the USPS, but it's not a traditional publisher either — and just like the USPS it simply couldn't work if you wanted the same level of editorial oversight as a publisher. edit: typo

The thing that makes Facebook different from the postal service is that Facebook provides an amplifier.

You can send one message and it'll be received by many.

Facebook may not have to take responsibility for users' content or wrangling with issues such as free speech but they must take responsibility for what and how they choose to amplify and recommend that content to others.

Traditionally this is a power that has only been held by broadcasters. Broadcasters have things like time delays and "dump switches" when they are conducting live shows. The time delays are mostly used to insert the "bleeps" for bad language. The "dump switch" is a more brutal approach that allows them to avoid broadcasting something that is going terribly wrong.

Broadcasters also have "watersheds" that place time constraints on when certain types of things can be broadcast and broadly define who the expected audiences are.

In this case, Facebook are acting more like a broadcaster than a publisher or message conveyer. Because the audience can be more tightly controlled than a regular broadcaster, there is a case to be made for making the responsibility bar higher, not lower, so that inappropriate content cannot be deliberately targeted at vulnerable people.

Re: Facebook are 'morally bankrupt liars' says New Zealand's privacy commissioner

#302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because this isn’t a Twitter rant from a random nobody; New Zealand’s privacy commissioner probably has regulatory authority (or at least influence) to force Facebook to change its behavior, at least in NZ. If he’s using language this strong that probably indicates a crackdown is coming.

If NZ politicians push the issue, FB will just leave NZ and users will get a GDRP-style message letting them know why.

"And in related news, NZ's per-capita productivity doubled last year after..."

Re: Facebook are 'morally bankrupt liars' says New Zealand's privacy commissioner

#303

"[They] allow the live streaming of suicides, rapes, and murders, continue to host and publish the mosque attack video, allow advertisers to target ‘Jew haters’ and other hateful market segments, and refuse to accept any responsibility for any content or harm." I stopped reading after this point. Facebook has no clue what kind of stuff gets posted on their platform, and their AI isn't powerful enough to detect it. Th…

If they don't know what's being posted, maybe they should change how their platform works? If a normal business behaved like this and then just shrugged their shoulders, no one would stand for it. A traditional broadcaster would have their licence revoked. A print publisher would be in serious trouble. But when it happens online, somehow it's someone else's problem. This seems odd to me.

In Sweden the a bunch of publishers are using the same defence as FB right now. They are being investigate for automatically republishing slander originating from a company similar to AP.

If they win their case I do not see why FB should be held to a higher standard.

Re: Facebook are 'morally bankrupt liars' says New Zealand's privacy commissioner

#304
post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Europe as a whole is neither competitive nor popular (?) because they don't ascribe to the USA's view on free speech?

In the market of digital services, Europe is as good as non-existent. Maybe I can come up with one or two names in the top 20 of the most successful software enterprises. And those are probably already dinosaurs compared to most recent developments on that market. Europe is exceptionally bad at creating their own services. Maybe because it is just too convenient to use American ones or that there isn't really any ven…

You forget that Europe has been ruined by WW2. It's dependence of US(military and technologically) has always been part of the plan.

Europe is also very fragmented and there was hope the EU could fix that but Brexit and other internal and external factors(i.e Russia, China, Tump's policy etc) seem oppose a cohesive, united Europe for obvious reasons.

It has little to nothing to do with "openness" for new ideas. It's more about a chain of unfortunate events.

What does Huawei dominance in 5G and its ban has to do with "openness" or new ideas?

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2018/07/15/trump-nat...

Re: Facebook are 'morally bankrupt liars' says New Zealand's privacy commissioner

#305
post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly this. I work in C2C e-commerce which in my jurisdiction has very strict laws around ensuring we do due diligence on the people we allow onto our platform. If we didn't we would be finished. The only way to get Facebook to start taking this more seriously is through more regulation.

I partly agree. It'd also be nice if individuals were held responsible for death threats and rape threats they post on-line. Facebook are morally corrupt because they aid and abet morally corrupt individuals. Both Facebook and those individuals should be held to account for that.

Not saying you personally do this, but it seems every time Europe prosecutes someone for threats of violence on twitter there are the usual fools here shouting "it's just free speech!"

Re: Facebook are 'morally bankrupt liars' says New Zealand's privacy commissioner

#306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which I think may be the appropriate answer. It's unclear that the net benefit to society is greater with these social media companies than without them. If anything, the data we have so far is that it is a net negative.

What data are you referencing exactly? I would love to see it.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/11/181108164316.h...

https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2018/06/gse-phones-st...

Re: Facebook are 'morally bankrupt liars' says New Zealand's privacy commissioner

#307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a huge difference between covering terrible events as a news story and providing the platform for content engineered to divide and radicalize to proliferate to millions. Also yes YouTube should be liable, not for the video of the NZ shooting being re-uploaded, but for the thousands of hours of hateful violent propaganda they allow to spread on their platform even facilitating it by suggesting it to users with…

>If 20 people were to stand up on a soapbox with a megaphone in times square screaming about /r/redpill, /r/fatpeoplehate, etc concepts they would be removed if legal, and if not legal a huge countermovement would appear to try to force them out. On Reddit you get both the megaphone and the safe space, but are still just as easily accessible to the public as anywhere. I wouldn't be so sure. People would probably just…

It amazes me that RedPill gets such hate. It's just Cosmo for men: mediocre life and dating advice, with a nugget of truth. Here are the current top posts.

- "Sexual Selection and Existential Fear": about disregarding the notion that men always want sex and women do the choosing. In other words, self respect.

- "How to Structure Your Day to Maximize Productivity." This could be plucked from a magazine.

- "Practice what you learn." Pretty much what it says, basic life advice about persistence.

- "Day game works--get out there and approach" If you want to date women, approach them and make conversation. Duh.

- "Be thoroughly logical about what you want from women and what you're prepared to pay for it" Again, have some self respect and don't roll over.

This is apparently so threatening that it must be quarantined. How fragile must women be that giving men some basic sanity checking, and telling them not to worship every vagina on sight, is a threat to society and must be hysterically misrepresented and demonized at every turn.

The sad part is, red pill is probably the first time in these guys' lives that someone has given these dudes a script that can actually succeed. It's not great, it misses a lot of nuance, but it's a start. What do you want instead, incels who resent the world and think they are literally incapable of being loved, so they shouldn't try?

Actually yes, that's exactly what people seem to want. For the undesirables to go away, and for sociable people to continue to enjoy the privilege of being sufficiently attractive and sufficiently high class that useless feel good advice like "just be yourself!" is all anyone will ever need. And then calling that empathy.

Re: Facebook are 'morally bankrupt liars' says New Zealand's privacy commissioner

#308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But TV is dead and the social appeal for networks like this isn't filtered or delayed content.

TV isn't dead, it just changed, just ask Netflix.

Netflix can be seen as TV except for that relevant part of choosing the content you consume yourself.

Re: Facebook are 'morally bankrupt liars' says New Zealand's privacy commissioner

#309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TV isn't dead, it just changed, just ask Netflix.

Netflix can be seen as TV except for that relevant part of choosing the content you consume yourself.

Yes, that's my point, it's TV and it isn't dead?

Re: Facebook are 'morally bankrupt liars' says New Zealand's privacy commissioner

#310
post #260
post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Facebook has no clue what kind of stuff gets posted on their platform Of course they do. People report. And in my personal experience, Facebook always(!) replies "not against community standards", even when clear-cut crimes like rape threats.

I've reported actual child pornography with hundreds of likes and comments and got that reply from Facebook. On the other hand, a Facebook group I created for my CS course with a few hundred members and just a bunch of helpful course material and questions vanished for a few months without any sort of warning or notification, and showed up like it had never been gone in the first place. I tried to contact Facebook, e…

If they consider childporn "not against their community standards", isn't that enough reason to report them to the police and make a huge public stink about this?
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