Facebook are 'morally bankrupt liars' says New Zealand's privacy commissioner • Hacker News Board

Re: Facebook are 'morally bankrupt liars' says New Zealand's privacy commissioner

#251

Post by DCoder » Mon, Apr 08, 2019, 8:04 AM UTC

acdc4life wrote: post #69

HNthrow22 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Facebook has no clue what kind of stuff gets posted on their platform, and their AI isn't powerful enough to detect it. The idea that Facebook is causing/enabling such behaviors is ridiculous. I contend as a society we should hold these massive tech orgs (who have more power than most governments) to the standard of moderating the content that's posted to their platforms. They have the money and profits to hire hum…

None of these tech companies have the ability to do that. What you are suggesting would mean the death of every social media company.

When RIAA/MPAA/etc. came with astronomical fines, those same companies suddenly created the capabilities to block things that even smelled like copyrighted material. Whatever your opinion of MAFIAA is, it would seem this sort of detection can be done when a large enough stick is presented.

Re: Facebook are 'morally bankrupt liars' says New Zealand's privacy commissioner

#252

Post by bArray » Mon, Apr 08, 2019, 8:05 AM UTC

baby wrote: post #214

bArray wrote: post #156

> Zuckerberg said incidents like the live streaming of the > Christchurch mosque attacks were the result of “bad > actors”; not bad technology and a time delay would disrupt > the enjoyment of users who broadcast events like birthday > parties or group hangouts. In this case, he is 100% correct. Facebook, or social media in general, is a tool. A powerful tool, but a tool nevertheless. Knives for example aren't evil a…

Wait. How many knife attacks are there been in London? I thought it was only a few times?

135 homicides by knife in 2018 and 2019 is looking no better [1]. Bear in mind that's just deaths, not a count of attacks.

[1] https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/8104412/london-stabbings-lates...

Re: Facebook are 'morally bankrupt liars' says New Zealand's privacy commissioner

#253

Post by negamax » Mon, Apr 08, 2019, 8:05 AM UTC

timomax wrote: post #250

flexie wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Facebook has "no clue what kind of stuff gets posted" because they conveniently have decided to have no clue. Facebook enjoys the protection of its IPR and the right to sell advertisement overseas in places like New Zealand or Europe. Why should New Zealand or Europe allow their business model of close to zero oversight of content? Facebook is not a startup. It's a huge company making billions showing ads to billions…

Exactly. There is no cult of "free speech" in Europe. We will just block such sites if they don't reform.

Come on, you can't be this ignorant. This is simply a stunt to get more political power. You can't just offload social ills and political failure on Facebook. Scapegoating.

Re: Facebook are 'morally bankrupt liars' says New Zealand's privacy commissioner

#254

Post by raxxorrax » Mon, Apr 08, 2019, 8:05 AM UTC

timomax wrote: post #250

flexie wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Facebook has "no clue what kind of stuff gets posted" because they conveniently have decided to have no clue. Facebook enjoys the protection of its IPR and the right to sell advertisement overseas in places like New Zealand or Europe. Why should New Zealand or Europe allow their business model of close to zero oversight of content? Facebook is not a startup. It's a huge company making billions showing ads to billions…

Exactly. There is no cult of "free speech" in Europe. We will just block such sites if they don't reform.

Mabe this is a reason it isn't popular?

Edit: nor competative. For that matter.

Re: Facebook are 'morally bankrupt liars' says New Zealand's privacy commissioner

#255

Post by DCoder » Mon, Apr 08, 2019, 8:06 AM UTC

DSingularity wrote: post #184

o10449366 wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"By the end of 2018, in response to criticism of the prevalence of violent and exploitative content on the social network, Facebook had more than 30,000 employees working on safety and security — about half of whom were content moderators." [0] That number has only increased in recent months and will likely continue to increase in the near future. Not all of them are designated content moderators, it's true, so techn…

Great. Now we need more and we need to give those moderators teeth and tools.

And maybe some way to forget the horrible material they have to sift through.

Re: Facebook are 'morally bankrupt liars' says New Zealand's privacy commissioner

#256

Post by bArray » Mon, Apr 08, 2019, 8:09 AM UTC

Macross8299 wrote: post #195

bArray wrote: post #156

> Zuckerberg said incidents like the live streaming of the > Christchurch mosque attacks were the result of “bad > actors”; not bad technology and a time delay would disrupt > the enjoyment of users who broadcast events like birthday > parties or group hangouts. In this case, he is 100% correct. Facebook, or social media in general, is a tool. A powerful tool, but a tool nevertheless. Knives for example aren't evil a…

O/T but I find the first link absolutely hilarious as a non-Brit. The stereotypes about binning that knife are real.

If ever you wanted to see how out of touch politicians are with technology (or reality)...

Just to add to the hilarity, a police knife amnesty bin was raided and had all of its knives stolen [1].

[1] https://www.somersetcountygazette.co.uk/news/17537164.all-kn...

Re: Facebook are 'morally bankrupt liars' says New Zealand's privacy commissioner

#257

Post by HNthrow22 » Mon, Apr 08, 2019, 8:09 AM UTC

o10449366 wrote: post #173

llukas wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Furthermore, the idea that harsh penalties and regulations are going to prevent psychopaths from broadcasting their killing spree is ridiculous Nobody is broadcasting in TV or newspapers - they are actually liable for content that gets published on those platforms. Maybe we finally remove exception for internet?

Haha, psychopaths don't have to publish in TV or newspapers because they do it for them. Go back a decade or two before Facebook was a big deal and you'd see CNN, NYTimes, NBC, etc. all feverishly covering Columbine, spending weeks profiling the shooters and every detail of their lives, broadcasting bar graphs and rankings of mass murders like it's a video game scoreboard and openly publishing their manifestos and na…

There's a huge difference between covering terrible events as a news story and providing the platform for content engineered to divide and radicalize to proliferate to millions. Also yes YouTube should be liable, not for the video of the NZ shooting being re-uploaded, but for the thousands of hours of hateful violent propaganda they allow to spread on their platform even facilitating it by suggesting it to users with their algorithm.

Drawing parallels between mediums like TV/Film is problematic because there's never been anything like the internet in human history, that being said a TV example of the kind of content that shouldn't be legal: 30 minute produced broadcast dedicated to sharing fake crime stats about Muslims and encouraging viewers to organize violent attacks on their local mosques - this is what goes on the internet. Users from 8chan were (and still are) encouraging and validating the NZ shooter. We have specific incidents and shooters we can point to now. Elliot Rodgers (Santa Barbara shooter) was an active redditor and incel and had his extreme beliefs were both validated and enforced by that community before he took action, ending innocent lives. One could make a case that without the wide ranging communal support these psychotic individuals wouldn't have been emboldened to act on their hateful beliefs. Nothing even close to this is broadcast to a wide audience anywhere but the internet and it shouldn't be permitted on the internet either.

Relevant comment from HN in 2017: taurath on July 19, 2017 [-]

If 20 people were to stand up on a soapbox with a megaphone in times square screaming about /r/redpill, /r/fatpeoplehate, etc concepts they would be removed if legal, and if not legal a huge countermovement would appear to try to force them out. On Reddit you get both the megaphone and the safe space, but are still just as easily accessible to the public as anywhere.

Its "real" freedom of information, without many of the mechanisms that larger society uses to fight back against it. Instead it is just ignored and left to fester and grow until it pops into the public forum at the point where huge efforts are required to fight it.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14806974

Re: Facebook are 'morally bankrupt liars' says New Zealand's privacy commissioner

#258

Post by raxxorrax » Mon, Apr 08, 2019, 8:10 AM UTC

m0zg wrote: post #234

spaginal wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is an uncomfortable trend. I’ve largely ducked out of these conversations on HN anymore, trying to explain why basic free speech is important, and hitting resistance, shows the obvious failings (success?) of public modern schooling. We have a new young generation that seems to unquestionably look to government for all answers, and demand to be silenced by biased censors and it’s shocking.

>> We have a new young generation that seems to >> unquestionably look to government for all answers This is especially weird given that the very same people consider the current US government to be incompetent (for the record, I disagree, based on the results in a number of areas). The very same people seem to suggest that we abolish the 1st and 2nd amendment, and in the same breath suggest that "our democracy is dy…

Failed education and experience in my opinion. And it is true that something outrageous is easily found on the net.

Re: Facebook are 'morally bankrupt liars' says New Zealand's privacy commissioner

#259

Post by raxxorrax » Mon, Apr 08, 2019, 8:13 AM UTC

bamboozled wrote: post #248

acdc4life wrote: post #35

"[They] allow the live streaming of suicides, rapes, and murders, continue to host and publish the mosque attack video, allow advertisers to target ‘Jew haters’ and other hateful market segments, and refuse to accept any responsibility for any content or harm." I stopped reading after this point. Facebook has no clue what kind of stuff gets posted on their platform, and their AI isn't powerful enough to detect it. Th…

Actually they should not allow live content posts, just like TV broadcasting corporations are required to have a delay in case something harmful or disturbing were to be broadcast. They're 100% responsible for building a platform which allows for this kind of content to be posted and broadcast en-masse with zero responsibility or accountability. It amazes me people think that making a profit from this kind of "platfo…

But TV is dead and the social appeal for networks like this isn't filtered or delayed content.

Re: Facebook are 'morally bankrupt liars' says New Zealand's privacy commissioner

#260

Post by ttsda » Mon, Apr 08, 2019, 8:14 AM UTC

Tomte wrote: post #139

acdc4life wrote: post #35

"[They] allow the live streaming of suicides, rapes, and murders, continue to host and publish the mosque attack video, allow advertisers to target ‘Jew haters’ and other hateful market segments, and refuse to accept any responsibility for any content or harm." I stopped reading after this point. Facebook has no clue what kind of stuff gets posted on their platform, and their AI isn't powerful enough to detect it. Th…

> Facebook has no clue what kind of stuff gets posted on their platform Of course they do. People report. And in my personal experience, Facebook always(!) replies "not against community standards", even when clear-cut crimes like rape threats.

I've reported actual child pornography with hundreds of likes and comments and got that reply from Facebook.

On the other hand, a Facebook group I created for my CS course with a few hundred members and just a bunch of helpful course material and questions vanished for a few months without any sort of warning or notification, and showed up like it had never been gone in the first place. I tried to contact Facebook, even finding a form specifically for groups that vanish, and got no reply whatsoever. I still don't know what the hell happened there.