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Facebook are 'morally bankrupt liars' says New Zealand's privacy commissioner

theguardian.com

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Re: Facebook are 'morally bankrupt liars' says New Zealand's privacy commissioner

#161

Post by antidesitter »

jjeaff wrote: post #86
m0zg wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you're asking for also leads to total, Chinese-style censorship, as the government finds more and more content on these network it doesn't particularly like and therefore considers "extremist". Fun fact: Russia has recently passed a set of laws under which you can go to jail for simply "disrespecting" a government official. This "disrespect" can take the form, for example, of pointing out that their spending is…

You don't see any difference here? One government is trying to keep their people from seeing violent and disturbing content. The other is trying to keep their people from learning about violent and disturbing things that very government is commiting themselves to its own people. I don't think the NZ government is scooping up and murdering political disedents.

> One government is trying to keep their people from seeing violent and disturbing content.

That should be up to the people, not the government.

Re: Facebook are 'morally bankrupt liars' says New Zealand's privacy commissioner

#162

Post by o10449366 »

mavdi wrote: post #27
catmanjan wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you don't care about user experience and cost it's a pretty simple problem to solve - everything vetted before it gets posted

Yup. It’s a hard problem to solve while keeping the business profitable. But so is safety in mining, aviation, oil drilling, medicine etc. Some tech companies won’t be viable businesses once regulations kick in. Good riddance.

There's something hilariously ironic in saying that tech companies should be treated like mining, aviation, and medical companies. How many natural disasters have the biggest mining companies caused and what repercussions have they faced? Do you really think Boeing is going to dissolve or that the pharmaceutical companies that kill tens of thousands each year by selling opioids and bankrupt millions more are actually held accountable by government regulations? It's all a circus show.

Re: Facebook are 'morally bankrupt liars' says New Zealand's privacy commissioner

#163

Post by llukas »

o10449366 wrote: post #94
HNthrow22 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Facebook has no clue what kind of stuff gets posted on their platform, and their AI isn't powerful enough to detect it. The idea that Facebook is causing/enabling such behaviors is ridiculous. I contend as a society we should hold these massive tech orgs (who have more power than most governments) to the standard of moderating the content that's posted to their platforms. They have the money and profits to hire hum…

Why are you implying that Facebook isn't actively moderating their platforms or that governments would be able to do a better job? Facebook has hired thousands of human moderators in the past few years, significantly more than Google and Twitter. They've also invested significantly in improving their AI detection systems. That doesn't mean there isn't work to do still, but you're insinuating that they aren't actively…

> Furthermore, the idea that harsh penalties and regulations are going to prevent psychopaths from broadcasting their killing spree is ridiculous

Nobody is broadcasting in TV or newspapers - they are actually liable for content that gets published on those platforms.

Maybe we finally remove exception for internet?

Re: Facebook are 'morally bankrupt liars' says New Zealand's privacy commissioner

#164

Post by shard972 »

Tomte wrote: post #139
acdc4life wrote: post #35

"[They] allow the live streaming of suicides, rapes, and murders, continue to host and publish the mosque attack video, allow advertisers to target ‘Jew haters’ and other hateful market segments, and refuse to accept any responsibility for any content or harm." I stopped reading after this point. Facebook has no clue what kind of stuff gets posted on their platform, and their AI isn't powerful enough to detect it. Th…

> Facebook has no clue what kind of stuff gets posted on their platform Of course they do. People report. And in my personal experience, Facebook always(!) replies "not against community standards", even when clear-cut crimes like rape threats.

Consider who the person is reviewing these things. Imagine all the horrible fucked up shit they see on a daily basis.

I wouldn't be surprised if after seeing videos of babies being killed, people being beheaded and hung, that some sperm yelling at women might not even register to them as a bad thing.

Re: Facebook are 'morally bankrupt liars' says New Zealand's privacy commissioner

#165

Post by shard972 »

xupybd wrote: post #50
djsumdog wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

and why the focus of Facebook? This could have happened to Twitch.tv or a self-hosted platform (and who do you go after then? Vultr? Amazon? DigitalOcean?) Live streams are a game changer in helping people get out content. If you try to force more providers to vet material, it breaks down the massive availability. Sure it might foster a growth in self-hosted solutions like PeerTube, and help increase more tooling for…

Yeah we are looking at introducing hate speech laws after the attack. https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2019/04/08/524142/what-will-happe... Many people here don't value free speech even a little bit. I fear where this will lead us.

Don't value? They have been begging for free speech to be utterly decimated and cry foul if you even suggest that maybe they shouldn't lockup a teenager over sharing the video.

They just want to "teach people lessons", it's quite sad really.

Re: Facebook are 'morally bankrupt liars' says New Zealand's privacy commissioner

#166

Post by o10449366 »

NeedMoreTea wrote: post #140
WillPostForFood wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you don't have the ability to control your premises, or employ enough security, perhaps you should not be permitted to operate those premises. So we should shut down the mosques in New Zealand because they didn't control their premises and keep the shooter out? Should we shut down banks because they didn't have enough security to keep a bank robber out? You are shifting the blame away from the perpetrator. Every c…

Let's take it to the absurd. I am NOT shifting any blame from the perpetrator. I am placing additional blame on a medium that isn't willing to exercise adequate restraint or control. A bank undoubtedly has security measures in place to prevent robbery, if they don't bother, they won't last long. Nonetheless, there are regulations on what may and may not be done for public spaces, how crowded they may be to pass fire…

> Neither a mosque nor bank should be closed for a circumstance that could not reasonably have been predicted.

How is this any different from Facebook? A bank has security measures in place to prevent robbery, but a robbery could still take place in one and is more likely to occur in one because it's a high value target. Facebook has human and AI moderation in place that automatically processes anything you upload. Users are also able to report content. However, just like sometimes banks are robbed, sometimes objectionable content slips through their filters. By your own logic Facebook shouldn't be closed down because mass shootings cannot be reasonably predicted. The basis for your argument is fundamentally flawed and if you extrapolate it to your own examples you'll quickly see how ridiculous and illogical it is.

Re: Facebook are 'morally bankrupt liars' says New Zealand's privacy commissioner

#167

Post by antidesitter »

DSingularity wrote: post #99
acdc4life wrote: post #35

"[They] allow the live streaming of suicides, rapes, and murders, continue to host and publish the mosque attack video, allow advertisers to target ‘Jew haters’ and other hateful market segments, and refuse to accept any responsibility for any content or harm." I stopped reading after this point. Facebook has no clue what kind of stuff gets posted on their platform, and their AI isn't powerful enough to detect it. Th…

Why is it sensationalism to demand accountability? Why can’t we just say something as simple as “hey Zuck, Every time someone is murdered live on FB you owe society 50 million”. Is that so horrible?

Yes, it is horrible and also ridiculous and unfeasible.

Re: Facebook are 'morally bankrupt liars' says New Zealand's privacy commissioner

#168

Post by thoughtfunction »

NeedMoreTea wrote: post #140
WillPostForFood wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you don't have the ability to control your premises, or employ enough security, perhaps you should not be permitted to operate those premises. So we should shut down the mosques in New Zealand because they didn't control their premises and keep the shooter out? Should we shut down banks because they didn't have enough security to keep a bank robber out? You are shifting the blame away from the perpetrator. Every c…

Let's take it to the absurd. I am NOT shifting any blame from the perpetrator. I am placing additional blame on a medium that isn't willing to exercise adequate restraint or control. A bank undoubtedly has security measures in place to prevent robbery, if they don't bother, they won't last long. Nonetheless, there are regulations on what may and may not be done for public spaces, how crowded they may be to pass fire…

We can apply the same argument to governments with their lack of censorship of bad words as people walk the streets. We don't because it's ridiculous on it's face, and we don't want a blatant surveillance society such as that.

Re: Facebook are 'morally bankrupt liars' says New Zealand's privacy commissioner

#170

Post by forgotmyhnacc »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #14
forgotmyhnacc wrote: post #3

Why is a random Twitter rant on the front page of hacker news? Also re: Jew haters, he does realize that the top two people at Facebook are Jewish, right? (Mark and Sheryl)

Who (other than you) mentioned Jews? Do you think being Jews makes them immune to criticism for things completely unrelated? It would be a problem if someone dragged in their Jewishness as part of the criticism, but as far as I can see, nobody did.

It's in the article, 5th paragraph. It would be nice to know why my original post was downvoted, did people assume I was racist? I referenced a sentence in the article and stated a fact about Facebook that contradicts what was said.
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