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Facebook are 'morally bankrupt liars' says New Zealand's privacy commissioner

theguardian.com

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Re: Facebook are 'morally bankrupt liars' says New Zealand's privacy commissioner

#121

Post by o10449366 »

maksimum wrote: post #103
o10449366 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes you say it's an easy problem? They were able to block 1.2 million copycat videos of the shooting, but 0.3 million still got through. YouTube also struggled to remove them and even went so far to disable uploads entirely for a period because their AI was insufficient. The difference is they just declined to release specific numbers so they took less flack. When you literally have thousands of humans all det…

Facebook (and Google and others) can easily identify themes in natural language both written and spoken. They're really good at those problems because they're used as inputs for ad sales. Identifying themes in video is harder than natural language. But fundamentally it requires the same kind of ML tools as natural language, which these companies have already mastered. I think the bigger issue is that Facebook doesn't…

I don't know how you came to these conclusions, but they're fundamentally incorrect. Video has been one of Facebook's fastest growing advertisement categories in recent years, particularly after their acquisition of Instagram. They absolutely have a business purpose for understanding video and if they didn't they wouldn't have invested so heavily in it with features like livestreaming. Furthermore, I don't know where the idea of government regulation as an incentive came from in this thread, but it's illogical and ridiculous. Facebook doesn't need an incentive to try and prevent objectionable content like mass murders from appearing on their platform because they're well-aware of the damage they can cause their brand. That's incentive enough.

Re: Facebook are 'morally bankrupt liars' says New Zealand's privacy commissioner

#122

Post by malloreon »

I appreciate how the word using the word 'are,' though done because of a difference of how other countries refer to organizations, drives home the point that facebook is not a monolith.

It is a collection of thousands of morally bankrupt liars, each willfully using their particular skills and experience for evil every single day.

Re: Facebook are 'morally bankrupt liars' says New Zealand's privacy commissioner

#123

Post by xupybd »

NeedMoreTea wrote: post #100
acdc4life wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of these tech companies have the ability to do that. What you are suggesting would mean the death of every social media company.

If you don't have the ability to control your premises, or employ enough security, perhaps you should not be permitted to operate those premises. Unsafe clubs get closed down. They - or any other social media company - don't have a right to exist. If societies around the world conclude they do more harm than good as they currently operate, it's perfectly reasonable to require them to moderate adequately. If they cann…

So why not fault the ISPs for allowing this?

Re: Facebook are 'morally bankrupt liars' says New Zealand's privacy commissioner

#124

Post by WillPostForFood »

NeedMoreTea wrote: post #100
acdc4life wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of these tech companies have the ability to do that. What you are suggesting would mean the death of every social media company.

If you don't have the ability to control your premises, or employ enough security, perhaps you should not be permitted to operate those premises. Unsafe clubs get closed down. They - or any other social media company - don't have a right to exist. If societies around the world conclude they do more harm than good as they currently operate, it's perfectly reasonable to require them to moderate adequately. If they cann…

If you don't have the ability to control your premises, or employ enough security, perhaps you should not be permitted to operate those premises.

So we should shut down the mosques in New Zealand because they didn't control their premises and keep the shooter out? Should we shut down banks because they didn't have enough security to keep a bank robber out? You are shifting the blame away from the perpetrator. Every crime ever could be blamed on the victim for lack of security.

Re: Facebook are 'morally bankrupt liars' says New Zealand's privacy commissioner

#125

Post by o10449366 »

NeedMoreTea wrote: post #120
o10449366 wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well as much as HN or the news media would like you to believe, societies around the world have definitely not concluded that FB does more harm than good and I don't see that changing anytime soon. You may think the club is unsafe, but a billion people are still attending all night and they feel perfectly comfortable.

Attendance proves nothing at all. We've no idea if they are comfortable or not. Many appear to have come to think of it as a necessary evil. Millions of people were eating adulterated food every meal prior to food regulations. Political process and advertising was rife with corruption prior to attempts to instil a semblance of fairness limiting what was allowed and when. Yet people attempted to vote before this.

You're claiming simultaneously that we have no idea whether these users are comfortable or not and that most of them think of it as a necessary evil.

Attendance absolutely proves something when it comes to social media. You can't make a comparison between social media and food because one is necessary for survival and one isn't (I'm sure I'm going to invite a ton of comments here on how 'Facebook has become so ubiquitous and powerful it's now synonymous with survival!') If the negatives really outweighed the positives people would be leaving Facebook by the droves. It's only on HN and in the news media that this narrative is being spun.

Re: Facebook are 'morally bankrupt liars' says New Zealand's privacy commissioner

#126

Post by profmonocle »

maksimum wrote: post #103
o10449366 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes you say it's an easy problem? They were able to block 1.2 million copycat videos of the shooting, but 0.3 million still got through. YouTube also struggled to remove them and even went so far to disable uploads entirely for a period because their AI was insufficient. The difference is they just declined to release specific numbers so they took less flack. When you literally have thousands of humans all det…

Facebook (and Google and others) can easily identify themes in natural language both written and spoken. They're really good at those problems because they're used as inputs for ad sales. Identifying themes in video is harder than natural language. But fundamentally it requires the same kind of ML tools as natural language, which these companies have already mastered. I think the bigger issue is that Facebook doesn't…

Would sample size be an issue? An algorithm can recognize that a video is about someone discussing the latest Marvel movie because there are a lot of those types of videos.

But can an algorithm recognize that a video is of someone committing a real-life atrocity? Those are comparatively rare.

Re: Facebook are 'morally bankrupt liars' says New Zealand's privacy commissioner

#127

Post by salgernon »

acdc4life wrote: post #69
HNthrow22 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Facebook has no clue what kind of stuff gets posted on their platform, and their AI isn't powerful enough to detect it. The idea that Facebook is causing/enabling such behaviors is ridiculous. I contend as a society we should hold these massive tech orgs (who have more power than most governments) to the standard of moderating the content that's posted to their platforms. They have the money and profits to hire hum…

None of these tech companies have the ability to do that. What you are suggesting would mean the death of every social media company.

I think “social” is the key. If you are using a carrier to facilitate private conversations then I feel you should have a right to privacy. But a forum or online group is by its nature and intent a public platform and the provider should be responsible for policing that space.

Re: Facebook are 'morally bankrupt liars' says New Zealand's privacy commissioner

#128

Post by Nextgrid »

xupybd wrote: post #123
NeedMoreTea wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you don't have the ability to control your premises, or employ enough security, perhaps you should not be permitted to operate those premises. Unsafe clubs get closed down. They - or any other social media company - don't have a right to exist. If societies around the world conclude they do more harm than good as they currently operate, it's perfectly reasonable to require them to moderate adequately. If they cann…

So why not fault the ISPs for allowing this?

If you host a hateful or illegal website and someone complains to your ISP they’ll cut you off immediately.

No reason Shitbook shouldn’t be held to the same standard.

Re: Facebook are 'morally bankrupt liars' says New Zealand's privacy commissioner

#129

Post by [deleted] »

xupybd wrote: post #29
Analemma_ wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because this isn’t a Twitter rant from a random nobody; New Zealand’s privacy commissioner probably has regulatory authority (or at least influence) to force Facebook to change its behavior, at least in NZ. If he’s using language this strong that probably indicates a crackdown is coming.

Yeah we are 4 million people. Facebook could just block us an move on with little change in revenue. I don't think it's a huge issue for Facebook. It is a bit of an issue for New Zealand. Our officials may want to act a little more professionally in the public space.

[deleted]

Re: Facebook are 'morally bankrupt liars' says New Zealand's privacy commissioner

#130

Post by andrei_says_ »

acdc4life wrote: post #35

"[They] allow the live streaming of suicides, rapes, and murders, continue to host and publish the mosque attack video, allow advertisers to target ‘Jew haters’ and other hateful market segments, and refuse to accept any responsibility for any content or harm." I stopped reading after this point. Facebook has no clue what kind of stuff gets posted on their platform, and their AI isn't powerful enough to detect it. Th…

They monetize people’s attention. Well guess what, that’s not free and not without repercussions.
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