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I Lied When I Said We Did Everything We Could

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Re: I Lied When I Said We Did Everything We Could

#131

Turn the light's out when you're leaving. I want to watch the car park empty. It's easy, when they're strangers. To wave goodbye.

FYI for those who are wondering, these are lyrics from the song "Lights Out" by Broadcast.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRUO411-vJ4 (audio of the track) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Work_and_Non_Work (album it appears on)

Re: I Lied When I Said We Did Everything We Could

#132
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> seems to me like it's a cultural thing as well. This is true. I think that it's also a religious thing as well, and almost Christians. Other religions are more accepting of death, but Christianity has taught many to sincerely believe that Jesus himself would step into the room and heal their loved one, therefore every attempt must be made to save them. This is something I've seen first hand in my years as a Paramed…

It’s really strange to me. Christianity also teaches that death is temporary and you’ll be reunited with your loved ones (assuming everyone is righteous). Why such a fear of death?

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Re: I Lied When I Said We Did Everything We Could

#133
This reminds me of the Charlie Gard case, and cases like it that seem to happen every year or so, where parents spend months fighting pointlessly in the courts to delay the withdrawal of life support for their already-beyond-saving child. It's distressing every time.

Re: I Lied When I Said We Did Everything We Could

#134
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Brutal but I remember reading an excerpt from an army doctor during the Napoleonic wars. He had two soldiers in his care who had been burned in a gunpowder explosion. A one point a solder came in saw them and then bluntly asked if they would live and was told that it was hopeless. The guy then went and cut both of their necks. The doctor in shock screamed at the man you monster to which them man screamed back I'm not…

Reminds me of another account of a runway crash that left pilots trapped beneath burning wreckage and the understanding that any extraction and fire fighting would take hours when even minutes of a firey agonizing death, the local commanding officer on the ground grimly shot them both with his service pistol to shorten it to seconds and there was no disciplinary action even considered.

Another story a friends 93 year old grandfather was found unresponsive in his apartment. Rushed to the hospital and they saved his life.

And when he woke up he was utterly pissed because they cheated him out of an easy death. And as a devout Mormon he was done with this world.

My born in Greece high school history teacher said the Greeks didn't care how a man died. It's was how you lived that was important. I've tried to keep that in mind.

Re: I Lied When I Said We Did Everything We Could

#135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Christians believe that whether or not someone ought to live or die is in God's hands. They take the view that whatever humans ought to do to extend life ought to be done, since death will come when God wills it. Choosing to stop life support is tantamount to choosing to end someone's life, a power they believe only God wields righteously. On the flip side, couldn’t life support be considered thwarting God’s will?

If God gave man brains and free will, then Christians should be ok with the tools and medicine man creates, because it’s still God’s creation at the root, if even indirectly. (I know this doesn’t square with Luddites/ Amish etc.)

God gives man the ability to make tools that can both prolong their life and end it prematurely. Is there anything special about the latter than makes it “forbidden”?

Re: I Lied When I Said We Did Everything We Could

#136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I grew up in a conservative, Protestant family and I might be able to shed a little bit of light on this. A few points, simply based on the environment I grew up in, which means of course this is just one perspective on just one religious denomination - I won't provide more caveats than that: - Christians take the afterlife very seriously. One must be judged by God. Regardless of how confident you are in your final d…

> Christians believe that whether or not someone ought to live or die is in God's hands. They take the view that whatever humans ought to do to extend life ought to be done, since death will come when God wills it. Choosing to stop life support is tantamount to choosing to end someone's life, a power they believe only God wields righteously. On the flip side, couldn’t life support be considered thwarting God’s will?

I think ultimately there’s no good answer to this line of questioning, because an omnipotent god can make whatever he wants happen regardless of what humans do. Claims that someone is thwarting or enabling God’s will are subjective and religious leaders can deploy them however they wish.

Re: I Lied When I Said We Did Everything We Could

#137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

such absolutist statements make me think you are relatively young and likely have not experienced any form of chronic pain, mind you not momentary pain that you 'rise above' but constant, unwavering, always-on pain. that changes perspectives, especially when you are old and don't have much to look forward to.

These kind of ageist arguments are pretty annoying. Some people have chronic pain and still want to live as long as they possibly can.

There’s a significant difference between chronic pain and crippling state of existence that requires your ribs to be broken to sustain life.

Re: I Lied When I Said We Did Everything We Could

#138
post #97
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The code" is the attempt to keep the person alive. "Coding" is used as a verb either for performing "the code" or to describe a person dying.

Thanks, that makes more sense than the other answers. Strange to use a term like that in an article that is presumably for mass consumption.

Docility is a social network for psyicians, hardly a strange place to use medical terms.

Re: I Lied When I Said We Did Everything We Could

#139

There is a current trend to enable this peaceful dying and I'm a huge fan of allowing people to have the right to die. But absent cost as a factor (I don't want to blow all my savings on myself - rather leave them to wife+kids), pain isn't a reason for me to go. My early years were in the rural Third World where I had a whole bunch of near-fatal diseases as a young child and (unrelatedly) nearly committed suicide whe…

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Re: I Lied When I Said We Did Everything We Could

#140
post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stop trying to pass off your own personal opinions as facts.

Stop trying to interpret my opinions as facts. Are you seriously fooled into thinking what I'm saying here is even arguably fact? Of course it's my opinion...

If you call something someone else says a lie, that's not a statement of opinion. You're saying they said something false. That's a factual matter.
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