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I Lied When I Said We Did Everything We Could

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Re: I Lied When I Said We Did Everything We Could

#121

Post by learc83 »

jrnichols wrote: post #21
et2o wrote: post #2

Wonderful article. This is a not-uncommon situation in end of life care. It's difficult for a family to accept a tragedy like this, a loved young woman dying in the prime of her life from something untreatable. The families often are in almost some sort of denial (understandably, I'm saying that without judgment) and demand that everything be tried, even when it's futile and ends up making the situation worse like in…

> seems to me like it's a cultural thing as well. This is true. I think that it's also a religious thing as well, and almost Christians. Other religions are more accepting of death, but Christianity has taught many to sincerely believe that Jesus himself would step into the room and heal their loved one, therefore every attempt must be made to save them. This is something I've seen first hand in my years as a Paramed…

>This is true. I think that it's also a religious thing as well, and almost Christians. Other religions are more accepting of death.

In my own experience growing up in church as a pastor's kid and attending a lot of funerals, people at Christian funerals tend to be a lot more accepting/less obviously distressed than people at non-religious memorial services.

I think what you're describing has more to do with the American scientific optimism of the 50s and 60s and it's left over impact on American culture than it does with any particularly religion.

My parents generation truly believed that cancer, heart disease, and many other common ailments would be cured by the time they were old.

Re: I Lied When I Said We Did Everything We Could

#122

Post by diminoten »

danharaj wrote: post #110
diminoten wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a crazy argument, of course I don't feel the same about something now that I have it... Mark Twain was quipping, not building a life philosophy.

You dont seem to understand. There will be no you to have lost it. There was no you to gain it.

What you don't understand is there is a me now, currently, so this comment/argument is completely pointless and generally wrong.

Re: I Lied When I Said We Did Everything We Could

#123

Post by diminoten »

pdonis wrote: post #118
diminoten wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Death is not peace, stop perpetuating that lie.

Stop trying to pass off your own personal opinions as facts.

Stop trying to interpret my opinions as facts. Are you seriously fooled into thinking what I'm saying here is even arguably fact? Of course it's my opinion...

Re: I Lied When I Said We Did Everything We Could

#124

Post by monodeldiablo »

diminoten wrote: post #101
chmod775 wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Peaceful death is suicide, if chosen. Period. Then suicide is preferable. Stop using the word suicide as if it was an insult.

Picking suicide is a cop-out. Anything is better than nothingness.

That's your opinion. No matter how absolute you phrase it, it's not a fact.

And I've seen enough suffering and death to know that not everybody shares your opinion. I've seen people who, when they were healthy, held opinions just like yours beg for death when their time had come.

Count your blessings that you've not known pain, fear, or panic like the dying do.

Re: I Lied When I Said We Did Everything We Could

#125

Post by hopler »

jrnichols wrote: post #21
et2o wrote: post #2

Wonderful article. This is a not-uncommon situation in end of life care. It's difficult for a family to accept a tragedy like this, a loved young woman dying in the prime of her life from something untreatable. The families often are in almost some sort of denial (understandably, I'm saying that without judgment) and demand that everything be tried, even when it's futile and ends up making the situation worse like in…

> seems to me like it's a cultural thing as well. This is true. I think that it's also a religious thing as well, and almost Christians. Other religions are more accepting of death, but Christianity has taught many to sincerely believe that Jesus himself would step into the room and heal their loved one, therefore every attempt must be made to save them. This is something I've seen first hand in my years as a Paramed…

That's a bizarre bigotry. Christianity teaches of heaven and the second coming, and also that Jesus heals regardless of doctors. There is a huge diversity in Christianity.

How do you as a paramedic know what's happening to a patient's social security check?

Re: I Lied When I Said We Did Everything We Could

#126

Post by sagebird »

saagarjha wrote: post #112
adriand wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I grew up in a conservative, Protestant family and I might be able to shed a little bit of light on this. A few points, simply based on the environment I grew up in, which means of course this is just one perspective on just one religious denomination - I won't provide more caveats than that: - Christians take the afterlife very seriously. One must be judged by God. Regardless of how confident you are in your final d…

> Christians believe that whether or not someone ought to live or die is in God's hands. They take the view that whatever humans ought to do to extend life ought to be done, since death will come when God wills it. Choosing to stop life support is tantamount to choosing to end someone's life, a power they believe only God wields righteously. On the flip side, couldn’t life support be considered thwarting God’s will?

If God gave man brains and free will, then Christians should be ok with the tools and medicine man creates, because it’s still God’s creation at the root, if even indirectly. (I know this doesn’t square with Luddites/ Amish etc.)

Re: I Lied When I Said We Did Everything We Could

#127

Post by diminoten »

monodeldiablo wrote: post #124
diminoten wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Picking suicide is a cop-out. Anything is better than nothingness.

That's your opinion. No matter how absolute you phrase it, it's not a fact. And I've seen enough suffering and death to know that not everybody shares your opinion. I've seen people who, when they were healthy, held opinions just like yours beg for death when their time had come. Count your blessings that you've not known pain, fear, or panic like the dying do.

It's not my opinion, it's objective fact; after death there is literally nothingness forever, and even excruciating pain is something; you can react to it, decide things about it, etc. Those are facts.

Also you know absolutely nothing about me. Don't pretend like you do.

Re: I Lied When I Said We Did Everything We Could

#128

Post by bartread »

jrnichols wrote: post #21
et2o wrote: post #2

Wonderful article. This is a not-uncommon situation in end of life care. It's difficult for a family to accept a tragedy like this, a loved young woman dying in the prime of her life from something untreatable. The families often are in almost some sort of denial (understandably, I'm saying that without judgment) and demand that everything be tried, even when it's futile and ends up making the situation worse like in…

> seems to me like it's a cultural thing as well. This is true. I think that it's also a religious thing as well, and almost Christians. Other religions are more accepting of death, but Christianity has taught many to sincerely believe that Jesus himself would step into the room and heal their loved one, therefore every attempt must be made to save them. This is something I've seen first hand in my years as a Paramed…

> This is true. I think that it's also a religious thing as well, and almost Christians. Other religions are more accepting of death, but Christianity has taught many to sincerely believe that Jesus himself would step into the room and heal their loved one, therefore every attempt must be made to save them.

Nope. Everybody dies, with rare exception: the Bible is pretty unequivocal on that. I hate to drift so close to playing an SJW card and I'm not saying what you've described never happens, but please don't tar us all with the same brush and, instead, educate yourself.

Re: I Lied When I Said We Did Everything We Could

#129

Post by hopler »

busterarm wrote: post #14
caprese wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The families often are in almost some sort of denial It was like pulling teeth to try to get doctors to tell me anything realistic. I don't get the impression that anyone in the medical community is trying to change this. Unlike my other family members, I had seen this person once a month obviously deteriorating in line with what every prognosis and statistic would say. My other family members were there every day…

I know some parents who had a child with an extremely rare degenerative disorder that attacks the nervous system. They were wealthy enough to afford extremely good care and as such, kept their poor suffering child "alive" for 12 years longer than anyone else who had ever had the same disease. Life expectancy of newborns with this disorder is about 1-3 years. At every turn, the doctors and nurses charged with the chil…

Is wasn't long ago that homosexuality or intersexuality was a terrible condition that "any loving parent" would kill their child to prevent.

Re: I Lied When I Said We Did Everything We Could

#130

Post by hopler »

vichu wrote: post #24

I recommend this article for another essay on this topic: https://www.zocalopublicsquare.org/2011/11/30/how-doctors-di... It really boils down to quality over quantity. After all, I'm sure most would choose to die comfortably in their bed after a week rather than in a few months all while in excruciating pain.

Obviously but that's not the choice people make. Medicine is full of uncertainty.
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