Earlier quoted context omitted.
Fear and avoidance of worthlessness.
When you really drill down everything is pointless besides the just being conscious.
Even that is a mixed bag most days.
I Lied When I Said We Did Everything We Could
111–120 of 337 posts
Re: I Lied When I Said We Did Everything We Could
#112Earlier quoted context omitted.
It’s really strange to me. Christianity also teaches that death is temporary and you’ll be reunited with your loved ones (assuming everyone is righteous). Why such a fear of death?
I grew up in a conservative, Protestant family and I might be able to shed a little bit of light on this. A few points, simply based on the environment I grew up in, which means of course this is just one perspective on just one religious denomination - I won't provide more caveats than that: - Christians take the afterlife very seriously. One must be judged by God. Regardless of how confident you are in your final d…
> Christians believe that whether or not someone ought to live or die is in God's hands. They take the view that whatever humans ought to do to extend life ought to be done, since death will come when God wills it. Choosing to stop life support is tantamount to choosing to end someone's life, a power they believe only God wields righteously.
On the flip side, couldn’t life support be considered thwarting God’s will?
Re: I Lied When I Said We Did Everything We Could
#113Earlier quoted context omitted.
You seem to be thinking of a case where an otherwise healthy person is dying of an incurable disease, and risky treatments might bring their health completely back. I don't think that's an accurate portrayal of most sicknesses and death in a hospital for the elderly. It's more like a progression of failures and problems (or a constellation), some mitigated, leading to more or less prolonged suffering with no end in s…
No, it makes zero sense. My grandfather had advanced Parkinson's, but had zero intention of dying to it or its cornucopia of related symptoms/effects. So what if he has a major disease that made life many orders of magnitude worse for him? Life is still life, and death is still infinitely worse. Giving up and accepting death may seem reasonable to some, but not for me or my grandfather. There's always a root cause, a…
>Life is still life, and death is still infinitely worse.
And if that's truly your choice, you can choose it. In fact, as the article makes clear, your choice is the default one as things are now.
But you should understand that other people's choice might be different from yours, and you don't have to right to insist that they get your preferred treatment if they don't want it.
> there's always a way to keep going.
Did your grandfather die? I'm assuming he did, since you don't refer to him in the present tense. If so, doesn't that falsify this statement?
Re: I Lied When I Said We Did Everything We Could
#114Earlier quoted context omitted.
Assisted suicide has been legal in Canada for a few years now, and there haven’t been many major issues (other than Catholic hospitals refusing to comply with the law). Doctors aren't fools, and won't do it in cases that aren't blatantly acceptable. Most of the scenarios where it is desirable are cut and dry, and we have ethics boards/courts to handle the other circumstances.
Assisted suicide is a completely different thing than "laws preventing family members from prolonging the suffering of their loved ones." The first gives patients and families more options in how to deal with end of life care, the other takes options away.
> the other takes options away
Yes, it takes it out of the hands of the family and actually respects the patients final wishes, that they made for themselves while still lucid.
Re: I Lied When I Said We Did Everything We Could
#115There is a current trend to enable this peaceful dying and I'm a huge fan of allowing people to have the right to die.
But absent cost as a factor (I don't want to blow all my savings on myself - rather leave them to wife+kids), pain isn't a reason for me to go.
My early years were in the rural Third World where I had a whole bunch of near-fatal diseases as a young child and (unrelatedly) nearly committed suicide when I was a late teen, early adult.
The one thing I'd really like is a "resuscitate at all costs" marker. Imagine if there were a consent token marked upon your body, written into your bloodstream. Medical staff just test it and it says "let this man die", "put this woman through all pain so that she may have a few more days", or "kill this person actively if this happens".
There is pain so unbearable I want to quit. But I was wrong so many times in the past. Put me through it again and I'll want to quit but if I make it I'll be glad I failed to.
Force me to live. Let me say I must be forced.
Re: I Lied When I Said We Did Everything We Could
#116Earlier quoted context omitted.
It’s really strange to me. Christianity also teaches that death is temporary and you’ll be reunited with your loved ones (assuming everyone is righteous). Why such a fear of death?
I grew up in a conservative, Protestant family and I might be able to shed a little bit of light on this. A few points, simply based on the environment I grew up in, which means of course this is just one perspective on just one religious denomination - I won't provide more caveats than that: - Christians take the afterlife very seriously. One must be judged by God. Regardless of how confident you are in your final d…
I think you should rephrase those very specific items as belonging to your very specific sect because those ideals don't hold fast and true for most, even Protestants.
Also, the decision to 'pull the plug or not' is agonizing for everyone, not just one specific group.
And it's definitely not 'irrational' to fear dying.
Re: I Lied When I Said We Did Everything We Could
#117Earlier quoted context omitted.
> There should be laws preventing family members from prolonging the suffering of their loved ones. I can't think of a way to implement a law like that which wouldn't be fraught with horrible problems. Just imagine the misery associated with doctors deciding to "kill people's children," which in fact in some cases would be unjustified. (Nobody can always get it right, not even doctors.)
Assisted suicide has been legal in Canada for a few years now, and there haven’t been many major issues (other than Catholic hospitals refusing to comply with the law). Doctors aren't fools, and won't do it in cases that aren't blatantly acceptable. Most of the scenarios where it is desirable are cut and dry, and we have ethics boards/courts to handle the other circumstances.
"Refusing to comply with the law" sounds like assisted suicide is mandated, when it's really a voluntary thing. As it is, where are there even still private, religious hospitals in the country? At least here in Ontario hospitals are all public institutions.
Re: I Lied When I Said We Did Everything We Could
#118Earlier quoted context omitted.
In many cases, there are no mistakes made. Imagine a doctor saying: "You're going out but if we inflict pain you will stay longer." What would you choose? Peace or pain? What would you want your relatives to choose for you? In case you can't decide anymore? If the rest of my life will be nothing but pain, I don't think I'll want it.
Death is not peace, stop perpetuating that lie.
Stop trying to pass off your own personal opinions as facts.
Re: I Lied When I Said We Did Everything We Could
#119Earlier quoted context omitted.
That doesn’t mean we can’t explore the idea. In Australia, and I believe most places with well developed legal systems, you can get in quite a bit of trouble for mistreating an animal. No so much if you mistreat someone under the auspice of medical or aged care. Our culture has institutionalised the mistreatment of the terminally ill and frail-aged. There are good arguments to be made that this should be seen as a pr…
Brutal but I remember reading an excerpt from an army doctor during the Napoleonic wars. He had two soldiers in his care who had been burned in a gunpowder explosion. A one point a solder came in saw them and then bluntly asked if they would live and was told that it was hopeless. The guy then went and cut both of their necks. The doctor in shock screamed at the man you monster to which them man screamed back I'm not…
Reminds me of another account of a runway crash that left pilots trapped beneath burning wreckage and the understanding that any extraction and fire fighting would take hours when even minutes of a firey agonizing death, the local commanding officer on the ground grimly shot them both with his service pistol to shorten it to seconds and there was no disciplinary action even considered.
Re: I Lied When I Said We Did Everything We Could
#120Earlier quoted context omitted.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hospital_emergency_codes#Code_... Code blue is not literally used everywhere... many places in the US use a number these days like 99 for "Blue" and then other memorable two digit numbers for more specific, less emergent needs like respiratory support or rapid response. Same thing.
I feel like there's an inherent drift in the slang because part of its job is to not freak out bystanders, but once everyone knows what it means, you need to pivot to new slang.
Rather than slang, it's more appropriate to call it argot[1].