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I Lied When I Said We Did Everything We Could

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Re: I Lied When I Said We Did Everything We Could

#91

Post by chmod775 »

diminoten wrote: post #85
jdietrich wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Life is still life, and death is still infinitely worse. I assure you that this is untrue. There's a reason why people on the upper floors of the World Trade Center jumped from the windows, and it's not because they expected a soft landing. There are many, many things in this world worse than a peaceful death.

I assure you it is not untrue. People failing to realize a truth doesn't make it less true. Peaceful death is suicide, if chosen. Period.

> Peaceful death is suicide, if chosen. Period.

Then suicide is preferable.

Stop using the word suicide as if it was an insult.

Re: I Lied When I Said We Did Everything We Could

#92

Post by icebraining »

DesiLurker wrote: post #70
diminoten wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, but excruciating pain is always better than death, because death is eternal nothingness. At least excruciating pain is something.

such absolutist statements make me think you are relatively young and likely have not experienced any form of chronic pain, mind you not momentary pain that you 'rise above' but constant, unwavering, always-on pain. that changes perspectives, especially when you are old and don't have much to look forward to.

These kind of ageist arguments are pretty annoying. Some people have chronic pain and still want to live as long as they possibly can.

Re: I Lied When I Said We Did Everything We Could

#93

Post by danharaj »

diminoten wrote: post #57
macintux wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I want to go out as a result of a series of violent mistakes trying to save my life. The problem is that excruciating pain is only obviously better than death if there’s something positive at the end of it. Otherwise it’s comparable to being tortured 24 hours a day for the rest of your life.

Sorry, but excruciating pain is always better than death, because death is eternal nothingness. At least excruciating pain is something.

You don't feel the same way about the """nothingness""" before you were born as you do after you die. You're just weirdly flexing your ego in the most pompous way possible in this thread.

Re: I Lied When I Said We Did Everything We Could

#95

Post by icebraining »

jd75 wrote: post #74
diminoten wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it makes zero sense. My grandfather had advanced Parkinson's, but had zero intention of dying to it or its cornucopia of related symptoms/effects. So what if he has a major disease that made life many orders of magnitude worse for him? Life is still life, and death is still infinitely worse. Giving up and accepting death may seem reasonable to some, but not for me or my grandfather. There's always a root cause, a…

My grandma had cancer. A doctor had ignored her complaining of throat pain for too long, and it didn't look good. The doctor who told us chemo was an option was pushing my grandma really hard to just go ahead and die instead of trying chemo. It was horrible, and I hate the attitude that people shouldn't try so hard to stay alive. My grandma tried the chemo. She did die anyway, which I'm sure some folks will see as a…

Would it be OK if your gradma had decided against chemo and the doctor was pushing her really hard to take it?

Doctors bullying patients seems like a problem regardless of the direction they're pushing them.

Re: I Lied When I Said We Did Everything We Could

#96

Post by JudgeWapner »

segmondy wrote: post #84
et2o wrote: post #2

Wonderful article. This is a not-uncommon situation in end of life care. It's difficult for a family to accept a tragedy like this, a loved young woman dying in the prime of her life from something untreatable. The families often are in almost some sort of denial (understandably, I'm saying that without judgment) and demand that everything be tried, even when it's futile and ends up making the situation worse like in…

It's also business. The hospital looks at how much money they will make vs lose if you stayed at the hospital and weigh it against the probability that you will survive. If it works against them they push towards hospice.

Not just the profit from continuing treatment, but the risk forecast for malpractice lawsuits. You can still sue for malpractice because some $12/hr LPN "negligently contributed to the death" of 106-year old Aunt Opal.

Re: I Lied When I Said We Did Everything We Could

#97

Post by Grustaf »

wl wrote: post #30
caprese wrote: post #5

What is "the code" in this context? The article masterfully reveals details slowly over time, but I don't want to lean on my own understanding of what that means.

"The code" is the attempt to keep the person alive. "Coding" is used as a verb either for performing "the code" or to describe a person dying.

Thanks, that makes more sense than the other answers. Strange to use a term like that in an article that is presumably for mass consumption.

Re: I Lied When I Said We Did Everything We Could

#98

Post by blotter_paper »

colechristensen wrote: post #64

Two sides show up here, fear and avoidance of pain and suffering :: fear and avoidance of death. Most of the comments here advocate accepting death to minimize pain, but it doesn't have to be one or the other. With the right mindset you can accept both gracefully. A life in pain can be worth living without running towards or away from death.

Fear and avoidance of worthlessness.

Re: I Lied When I Said We Did Everything We Could

#99

Post by [deleted] »

diminoten wrote: post #40

I want to go out as a result of a series of violent mistakes trying to save my life. Why would anyone want anything else? Peaceful death is basically suicide. Why do doctors continually perpetuate this notion that slipping softly into death (palliative care, hospice) is preferable to continually trying to avoid it by way of riskier and riskier attempts at treating the root cause? At the very least, we could be honest…

[deleted]

Re: I Lied When I Said We Did Everything We Could

#100

Post by robbiep »

jrnichols wrote: post #21
et2o wrote: post #2

Wonderful article. This is a not-uncommon situation in end of life care. It's difficult for a family to accept a tragedy like this, a loved young woman dying in the prime of her life from something untreatable. The families often are in almost some sort of denial (understandably, I'm saying that without judgment) and demand that everything be tried, even when it's futile and ends up making the situation worse like in…

> seems to me like it's a cultural thing as well. This is true. I think that it's also a religious thing as well, and almost Christians. Other religions are more accepting of death, but Christianity has taught many to sincerely believe that Jesus himself would step into the room and heal their loved one, therefore every attempt must be made to save them. This is something I've seen first hand in my years as a Paramed…

In my experience with Muslim families, they have often been the hardest families to deal with (exactly as you describe for Christian families) because they adamantly demand absolutely every measure to be taken
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