The Secret Rules For Getting Hired • Hacker News Board

Re: The Secret Rules For Getting Hired

#51

Post by dentemple » Sun, Apr 07, 2019, 6:22 PM UTC

Grustaf wrote: post #38

dentemple wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, but if others are just bulldozing through a pronunciation, they haven't actually given you the chance to help them with it. When exchanging the usual pleasantries, it's often the interviewer who is the first one to attempt the name, not the interviewee. If I were to answer my phone every time, "Hi, this Nguyen, my last name is pronounced pronounced S-- E--- O--- whatever", it would come off as a little odd. And…

It would come off as odd because it IS odd. The normal thing is to expect foreigners to butcher your name and don’t give it another thought. What does it actually matter? And even if they ask, how would an interviewer be able to actually pronounce all these names? They would have to be polyglot geniuses. Interviewer: So hello Mr Bezwzględny, how do you pronounce your name? Interviewee: Bezwzględny Interviewer in perf…

Just because it's expected, doesn't mean it reflects well on the butcher-er.

I can be polite enough to ask for a pronunciation (and apologize if I get it wrong).

When an interviewer doesn't even attempt that, it reflects poorly on their ability to view a candidate on their own worth.

Re: The Secret Rules For Getting Hired

#52

Post by rhizome » Sun, Apr 07, 2019, 6:26 PM UTC

brandonmenc wrote: post #47

>"If someone doesn't send a thank you email, don't hire them". I recently went through a short job search for programming work in Austin. I made it all the way to the final, on-site interview at three places before landing an offer. Every time I did not get an offer, I would get an email saying "thank you so much for your time, please reply with your concerns or questions!" And so, each time, I sent and email asking…

After that, I quit playing the ultra polite send-a-thank-you for every single phone call or meeting I was graced with, and sure enough, I got a couple job offers after that.

I wouldn't be surprised if deciding not to worry about details with unknowable significance and inconsistent response allowed you to relax a bit more in future interviews.

Re: The Secret Rules For Getting Hired

#53

Post by akvadrako » Sun, Apr 07, 2019, 6:31 PM UTC

curuinor wrote: post #3

This is all expressions of power. It won't be overcome until interviewees get leverage and express it. By the structure of the thing they never get leverage, so it will continue because it can.

Interviewees have all the power - they can just not work for you. Unless you are hiring desperate people.

Re: The Secret Rules For Getting Hired

#54

Post by 0db532a0 » Sun, Apr 07, 2019, 6:32 PM UTC

wallflower wrote: post #6

And then you have the famous Liar’s Poker interview question: > Investment bankers had a technique known as the stress interview. If you were invited to Lehman’s New York offices, your first interview might begin with the interviewer asking you to open the window. You were on the forty-third floor overlooking Water Street. The window was sealed shut. That was, of course, the point. The interviewer just wanted to see…

Did he get the job?

Re: The Secret Rules For Getting Hired

#55

Post by IshKebab » Sun, Apr 07, 2019, 6:35 PM UTC

overgard wrote: post #48

It's almost not worth complaining about because of the ubiquitous of it, but I absolutely hate and make a point of never doing this if I'm interviewing someone: 1) Puzzle questions not related to the work they'd be doing. It's ok to have a somewhat puzzling geometry puzzle if they're doing, say, 3d work, but for a web dev? Etc. etc. 2) Coding on a white board. Can't you just setup a laptop in a conference room? Or ha…

I write code on a whiteboard, when discussing how to solve a problem with colleagues. Almost exactly like in an interview. Do people really not do this?

Re: The Secret Rules For Getting Hired

#56

Post by overgard » Sun, Apr 07, 2019, 6:37 PM UTC

IshKebab wrote: post #55

overgard wrote: post #48

It's almost not worth complaining about because of the ubiquitous of it, but I absolutely hate and make a point of never doing this if I'm interviewing someone: 1) Puzzle questions not related to the work they'd be doing. It's ok to have a somewhat puzzling geometry puzzle if they're doing, say, 3d work, but for a web dev? Etc. etc. 2) Coding on a white board. Can't you just setup a laptop in a conference room? Or ha…

I write code on a whiteboard, when discussing how to solve a problem with colleagues. Almost exactly like in an interview. Do people really not do this?

I have literally never done this in a job outside of interviews, and I haven't had anyone else do it either. They might draw class diagrams or concepts, but writing code by hand is error prone and pretty pointless.

Regardless, most modern offices have a projector or a TV in conference rooms. I just don't understand why you'd use a white board when you can easily project a text editor. The problem with writing code in handwriting is you can't move it, so you have to do it all linearly. If you need to introduce a variable or a new scope it gets messy incredibly quickly. When I code I almost am never thinking linearly, and I'm constantly adding things above and below, and doing that on a white board is a NIGHTMARE.

Re: The Secret Rules For Getting Hired

#57

Post by overgard » Sun, Apr 07, 2019, 6:48 PM UTC

brandonmenc wrote: post #47

>"If someone doesn't send a thank you email, don't hire them". I recently went through a short job search for programming work in Austin. I made it all the way to the final, on-site interview at three places before landing an offer. Every time I did not get an offer, I would get an email saying "thank you so much for your time, please reply with your concerns or questions!" And so, each time, I sent and email asking…

I can't even remember ever asking for feedback from an interview. It's awkward for the employer, especially if they're going through a lot of candidates, and usually if I don't pass an interview I tend to know why. I mean if you're socially intelligent, usually you can tell if you've said something they don't like. Plus I imagine a lot of employers probably have policies against answering that kind of question just for liability reasons, or just to not drag things out.

Re: The Secret Rules For Getting Hired

#58

Post by fopen64 » Sun, Apr 07, 2019, 6:50 PM UTC

I flip a bird every time I read about this subject. How did we allow the hiring process get such bizarre when we are the scarce resource?

Re: The Secret Rules For Getting Hired

#59

Post by overgard » Sun, Apr 07, 2019, 6:51 PM UTC

jayalpha wrote: post #40

There are very few rules in getting hired. A few are: 1. First class people hire first class people. 2. Second class people hire third class people. 3. People like to hire people similar to themselves. 4. Not getting a job does not really say anything about you, but the guy they hired says a lot about the company. PS: 5. Most companies, when offered unexperienced talent and an experienced idiot, will hire the experie…

I don't really like the idea of A/B/C players. In my opinion context is king. Let's say you're a very creative person, you might struggle at a big shop where the hard problems are mostly solved and maintenance and teamwork are the main things which are valued. On the other hand, you might be excellent at a small company that's finding its way. Or vice versa -- some people really need the structure a more established company can offer. You even see this in CXX level positions. A person might be an excellent CEO for a company that's just starting, and a terrible CEO for a multibillion dollar established business. So a first class player in one context can easily be a third class person in another.

Re: The Secret Rules For Getting Hired

#60

Post by sametmax » Sun, Apr 07, 2019, 6:52 PM UTC

I think one mistake from the author is the believe that somehow, an interview process is supposed to be fair.

It's not. Nature is not fair. School is not fair. Dating is not fair. And so on. We try to build fair societies, but right now, they are not.

And interview processes are really, really unfair. Being disappointed they are not and writing a rant about how to them more fair is very naive.

Interviews are most of the time social evaluations packed with negotiation. Very often, even the ones that pretend to be technical interviews.

Why ? Because humans are imperfect and limited. Most interviewers are just not capable of an effective recruitment process, no matter how they believe they are, not to mention a fair one.

So the advice to send here is not "make your recruitment process better". People that are able to will, and don't need this article to do so. People that can won't, and the article won't change their mind.

No, the advice is to the people looking for a job: don't take it personally, randomness takes big role in the process. But if you want to maximize your chances, you need to work on your social skills. Especially the ones that make them feel good about the interview, and value you.

You need technical skills to be good at your job. To be able to apply at high skill ones, to network with people with alike skills, to have fun, to negociate money.

But to nail the interview, you need more.