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The Secret Rules For Getting Hired

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Re: The Secret Rules For Getting Hired

#31

Post by SpicyLemonZest »

max76 wrote: post #22
chiefalchemist wrote: post #16

From what I've seen and experienced most people doing the hiring are clueless. What's worse is most of them are insane. That is, they keep doing the same but expect different results. Personally, I still shocked - and am mindful of the red flag - when they don't realize I'm interviewing them as much as they are interviewing me.

I'm a software engineer that's been involved in hiring decisions in the past. When we make a bad hire we do a post-mortem just like we would for a critical production bug. We adjust the interview process or evaluation criteria every time a bad hire is made. We also give the same interview for every role. We spend 80% of the time asking the same questions, and leave 20% of the time for the free flow conversation and i…

I've seen that kind of thing too. What I've never seen, and what the article is focused on, is a serious correction for failures to hire. It seems like most companies would rather slowly strangle their hiring pipeline than tell people "your dealbreakers are dumb and you're no longer allowed to use them".

Re: The Secret Rules For Getting Hired

#32

Post by vegetablepotpie »

curuinor wrote: post #3

This is all expressions of power. It won't be overcome until interviewees get leverage and express it. By the structure of the thing they never get leverage, so it will continue because it can.

The leverage interviewers have is that they know if the candidate can't find a job, that at some point the candidate won't be able to afford rent/mortgage, food, clothing etc. That's a desperate position for a candidate to be in and it puts employers in a position of absolute power. With that type of game it's inevitable that you will see anti-social interview techniques. It would be a sign of high character if an interviewer didn't power trip over a candidate. The changes that would alter that dynamic is either that society should find it acceptable for people to live out of a tent and ask for donations from strangers or guarantee basic needs to all its members. Both of which are socially and politically untenable because it would disrupt the power structure of those well regarded and politically connected business that benefit. So I expect zero change on this issue in perpetuity.

Re: The Secret Rules For Getting Hired

#33

Post by Grustaf »

gumby wrote: post #20

> "The whole team thought you were great. You were probably the strongest candidate overall, but we were looking for someone with experience in XYZ." Wow, my GF just related this to me literally last week. She liked the team she interviewed with as well. (I'm relieved actually as she got a job offer in hand for a place much closer to home).

If you have a skill that might be relevant to the company you're applying to, wouldn't it be in your best interest to emphasize that? Sure, recruiters are often quite clueless, but that's just how it is, so we have to increase our chances given the circumstances.

Re: The Secret Rules For Getting Hired

#34

Post by Grustaf »

dentemple wrote: post #27
Grustaf wrote: post #26

Maybe it's just me but I don't understand this article, it doesn't seem to be related to getting a job, seems more like some random musings on hiring? As to saying thank you, that's not sycophantic, it's common courtesy. It's not that hard. Anyway, what's with the hangup on names lately in the "tech" community? Every other podcast I listen to people keep excusing themselves for "mispronouncing" peoples' names. Newsfl…

The polite thing to do, I think, is to ask how to pronounce their name at the start of the conversation. Or ask how they would prefer to be referred to. (Many of my asian relatives have an anglo pronounciation they'd be willing to offer).

Exactly, if you care about how people with other native languages pronounce your name, I feel that it's up to you to help them do that. Either by coming up with a more reasonable version of it or choosing some local name, like many Chinese do.

When I lived in China I certainly didn't expect anyone to even come close to pronouncing my name in proper Swedish. That would have been absurd. My name is Gustaf and that simply can't be rendered in Chinese, so how would they be able to do it, even if they wanted to? Most people at my school ended up calling me Difdif.

Re: The Secret Rules For Getting Hired

#35

Post by dentemple »

Grustaf wrote: post #34
dentemple wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The polite thing to do, I think, is to ask how to pronounce their name at the start of the conversation. Or ask how they would prefer to be referred to. (Many of my asian relatives have an anglo pronounciation they'd be willing to offer).

Exactly, if you care about how people with other native languages pronounce your name, I feel that it's up to you to help them do that. Either by coming up with a more reasonable version of it or choosing some local name, like many Chinese do. When I lived in China I certainly didn't expect anyone to even come close to pronouncing my name in proper Swedish. That would have been absurd. My name is Gustaf and that simp…

Yeah, but if others are just bulldozing through a pronunciation, they haven't actually given you the chance to help them with it.

When exchanging the usual pleasantries, it's often the interviewer who is the first one to attempt the name, not the interviewee.

If I were to answer my phone every time, "Hi, this Nguyen, my last name is pronounced pronounced S-- E--- O--- whatever", it would come off as a little odd. And possibly as annoyance or haughtiness on my part.

All this goes to show that the "rules of politeness", themselves, are part of the secret hiring process.

Re: The Secret Rules For Getting Hired

#36

Post by daniel-cussen »

Grustaf wrote: post #26

Maybe it's just me but I don't understand this article, it doesn't seem to be related to getting a job, seems more like some random musings on hiring? As to saying thank you, that's not sycophantic, it's common courtesy. It's not that hard. Anyway, what's with the hangup on names lately in the "tech" community? Every other podcast I listen to people keep excusing themselves for "mispronouncing" peoples' names. Newsfl…

So far I've been able to accurately pronounce every name I've heard. For backstory I speak two languages natively so listening for phonetics is something I do well.

But this precise problem, and that of spelling the name correctly, is why I was named Daniel. Same spelling in English as in Spanish, everyone has some idea of how to pronounce it...etc.

Re: The Secret Rules For Getting Hired

#37

Post by pooya13 »

It’s just lazy when the interviewer benchmarks the interviewe against their own knowledge. I was once interviewing for a QR position at a supposedly prestigious company and the guy was asking me questions such as “what is the latest MacOS version number?” What that tells me is that they promote on non relevant criteria so I declined their offer no matter how “competitive” their compensation was.

On the other end of the spectrum I don’t understand why some ask questions such as: “If you were a ..., which ... would you be?” (E.g. candy bar, kitchen appliance, etc.)

Re: The Secret Rules For Getting Hired

#38

Post by Grustaf »

dentemple wrote: post #35
Grustaf wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly, if you care about how people with other native languages pronounce your name, I feel that it's up to you to help them do that. Either by coming up with a more reasonable version of it or choosing some local name, like many Chinese do. When I lived in China I certainly didn't expect anyone to even come close to pronouncing my name in proper Swedish. That would have been absurd. My name is Gustaf and that simp…

Yeah, but if others are just bulldozing through a pronunciation, they haven't actually given you the chance to help them with it. When exchanging the usual pleasantries, it's often the interviewer who is the first one to attempt the name, not the interviewee. If I were to answer my phone every time, "Hi, this Nguyen, my last name is pronounced pronounced S-- E--- O--- whatever", it would come off as a little odd. And…

It would come off as odd because it IS odd. The normal thing is to expect foreigners to butcher your name and don’t give it another thought. What does it actually matter?

And even if they ask, how would an interviewer be able to actually pronounce all these names? They would have to be polyglot geniuses.

Interviewer: So hello Mr Bezwzględny, how do you pronounce your name? Interviewee: Bezwzględny Interviewer in perfect Polish: Ok Mr Bezwzględny, can you tell me a bit about your background?

Re: The Secret Rules For Getting Hired

#39

Post by MaulingMonkey »

I'm more than happy to send a thank you email... in response to one. Responding in kind is reasonable enough - social pleasantries exchanged between those who want them, skipped for the busy who would rather get down to business.

If that disqualifies me from some jobs, that's a feature. Uneven expectations here comes across as demanding respect while showing none, which speaks poorly of the work environment. Hard pass.

Re: The Secret Rules For Getting Hired

#40

Post by jayalpha »

There are very few rules in getting hired. A few are:

1. First class people hire first class people.

2. Second class people hire third class people.

3. People like to hire people similar to themselves.

4. Not getting a job does not really say anything about you, but the guy they hired says a lot about the company.

PS:

5. Most companies, when offered unexperienced talent and an experienced idiot, will hire the experienced idiot. Nobody ever got fired for buying IBM and he had the experience on his resume.

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