The Secret Rules For Getting Hired • Hacker News Board

Re: The Secret Rules For Getting Hired

#21

Post by cgriswald » Sun, Apr 07, 2019, 4:19 PM UTC

axle334 wrote: post #12

These "rules" miss the big picture. People react in certain ways for entirely different reasons. Example: Recruiter mispronounces my name. I don't say anything. This can be because: 1) I'm a coward. 2) I don't care. 3) I care and am not a coward, but think it would be petty to interrupt the conversation to point this out. 4) I'm overly practical and don't care about this kind of details. 5) I think the other person m…

Indeed.

My last name is not pronounced correctly by English speakers (even when they assume the name is French, which it isn't). Only twice has someone interviewing me gotten it correct, and in both cases it turns out they knew a distant relative of mine.

I only bother correcting people when we are going to have a lasting relationship. In an interview? We aren't there yet.

I have no idea how this would even play out for "Bob Anderson."

"When interviewing, I go for lunch with the candidate. I ask the waiter to subtly get their order wrong. A great test of the interviewee's character!"

Or the waiter's character.

"We always leave candidates waiting half an hour before calling them in. How do they cope with delays?"

I cope with delays of longer than 15 minutes by first trying to communicate about the delay and then by leaving. Dear recruiter, what do you think that says about me?

If I find out a recruiter has intentionally done any of these, the interview is over. I'm looking for a good fit. Duplicity, manipulation, lack of integrity... these are not qualities that ingratiate me to anyone.

Some people might say, "Well, yeah, but you can afford to do that. Not everyone can." But I did it when I couldn't afford to do it too. Perhaps not surprisingly, most of my employers have been awesome.

Re: The Secret Rules For Getting Hired

#22

Post by max76 » Sun, Apr 07, 2019, 4:23 PM UTC

chiefalchemist wrote: post #16

From what I've seen and experienced most people doing the hiring are clueless. What's worse is most of them are insane. That is, they keep doing the same but expect different results. Personally, I still shocked - and am mindful of the red flag - when they don't realize I'm interviewing them as much as they are interviewing me.

I'm a software engineer that's been involved in hiring decisions in the past.

When we make a bad hire we do a post-mortem just like we would for a critical production bug. We adjust the interview process or evaluation criteria every time a bad hire is made.

We also give the same interview for every role. We spend 80% of the time asking the same questions, and leave 20% of the time for the free flow conversation and interviewee questions.

Re: The Secret Rules For Getting Hired

#23

Post by cgriswald » Sun, Apr 07, 2019, 4:23 PM UTC

> Why would people want to work in such a homogeneous culture? Why would they want to work for someone who couldn't even be bothered to search the web for "How to pronounce Nguyen"?

Hilariously, I did a search for "How to pronounce $my_last_name" and each result I checked mispronounced it the same way English speakers always mispronounce it.

Re: The Secret Rules For Getting Hired

#24

Post by cgriswald » Sun, Apr 07, 2019, 4:32 PM UTC

Carpetsmoker wrote: post #17

sunseb wrote: post #4

I don't want to work for someone that tries to trick me! And if I had to hire a developer, I would want someone with great coding skills, not someone that makes a good impression at an interview.

Some people have great coding skills, but are right assholes or otherwise seriously toxic. You definitely need to look for more than just "great coding skills" if you want to hire great employees.

Sure, but I don't think "making a good impression in an interview" has a very strong correlation with whether someone is a "right asshole or otherwise seriously toxic." Plenty of decent people don't interview well, and plenty of assholes can put on 'interview face' to get a job.

Re: The Secret Rules For Getting Hired

#25

Post by dentemple » Sun, Apr 07, 2019, 4:34 PM UTC

danso wrote: post #19

FWIW, the author (exec managing editor of Insider) of the "thank you email" blog post shared it on Twitter, and has received a large and largely negative response: https://twitter.com/jessicaliebman/status/111416052358150144...

When the highest reply is a firm rebuttal from Scott Hanselman, you're probably on the wrong side of the argument.

Re: The Secret Rules For Getting Hired

#26

Post by Grustaf » Sun, Apr 07, 2019, 4:34 PM UTC

Maybe it's just me but I don't understand this article, it doesn't seem to be related to getting a job, seems more like some random musings on hiring?

As to saying thank you, that's not sycophantic, it's common courtesy. It's not that hard.

Anyway, what's with the hangup on names lately in the "tech" community? Every other podcast I listen to people keep excusing themselves for "mispronouncing" peoples' names. Newsflash: unless your name is English, people are guaranteed to mispronounce your name. You know they don't speak your language, so how could you expect them to pronounce your name in your language? I have never ever had a foreigner pronounce my name correctly in my language, and it doesn't bother me at all. I would be extremely surprised if they did, and my name is just outside of the comfort-zone of English orthography.

Could someone from the easily offended camp please explain your reasoning to me?

Re: The Secret Rules For Getting Hired

#27

Post by dentemple » Sun, Apr 07, 2019, 4:39 PM UTC

Grustaf wrote: post #26

Maybe it's just me but I don't understand this article, it doesn't seem to be related to getting a job, seems more like some random musings on hiring? As to saying thank you, that's not sycophantic, it's common courtesy. It's not that hard. Anyway, what's with the hangup on names lately in the "tech" community? Every other podcast I listen to people keep excusing themselves for "mispronouncing" peoples' names. Newsfl…

The polite thing to do, I think, is to ask how to pronounce their name at the start of the conversation.

Or ask how they would prefer to be referred to. (Many of my asian relatives have an anglo pronounciation they'd be willing to offer).

Re: The Secret Rules For Getting Hired

#28

Post by Grustaf » Sun, Apr 07, 2019, 4:40 PM UTC

sunseb wrote: post #4

I don't want to work for someone that tries to trick me! And if I had to hire a developer, I would want someone with great coding skills, not someone that makes a good impression at an interview.

That only really applies to coders. Most jobs are social, so you'll want to hire people that are more or less normal. In many work places they even want people that are pleasant to spend time with!

Re: The Secret Rules For Getting Hired

#29

Post by kolanos » Sun, Apr 07, 2019, 4:40 PM UTC

open-source-ux wrote: post #7

"A job interview isn't a set of trick questions" This reminds me of this old BBC comedy sketch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHy06FMsezI

John Cleese had a sketch in a similar vein [0].

[0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4iFzweRf3E

Eddit: Another comment beat me to it, but provided link for posterity.

Re: The Secret Rules For Getting Hired

#30

Post by Grustaf » Sun, Apr 07, 2019, 4:43 PM UTC

axle334 wrote: post #12

These "rules" miss the big picture. People react in certain ways for entirely different reasons. Example: Recruiter mispronounces my name. I don't say anything. This can be because: 1) I'm a coward. 2) I don't care. 3) I care and am not a coward, but think it would be petty to interrupt the conversation to point this out. 4) I'm overly practical and don't care about this kind of details. 5) I think the other person m…

Why would you even care how they pronounce your name, unless it's an English name? If they mispronounce Jones then sure that would be a red flag for many reasons, but if it's Nguyen? Can anyone outside Vietnam actually pronounce Nguyen? It's virtually impossible to do without practice if your native language is English. Or take Chinese "Qi" or "Xi", or basically any Polish sound. If your language doesn't have nasal vowels or soft sibilants you simply won't be able to pronounce them.