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Linux-based 4G phones with Google Assistant sold for $7 in Indonesia

tuxphones.com

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Re: Linux-based 4G phones with Google Assistant sold for $7 in Indonesia

#191
post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except that Firefox is phasing out Gecko and replacing it with Servo (we're not yet there but some components have been replaced already - this is what the Firefox Quantum thing was all about). So this KaiOS thing is basically picking up an abandoned project...

Servo is nowhere near production-ready and there's no reason to assume that it will be anytime soon. Just consider that Mozilla is pretty much working full-pelt on Gecko and merely keeping up with Google. They (as well as Google) are far away from implementing all currently specified web-standards, of which more get specified all the time. So, in order to get Servo to the level of current browser engines, they would…

Servo, while a research project, is also a place to build the fastest possible implementation of a browser (w/o full backwards compatibility), then crib the best performing parts and move that into mainline Firefox (what Project Quantum is, a metered replacement of Gecko).

Swapping out the jet engine of Firefox in flight (Gecko) was likely to be a very bumpy, messy road, thus Mozilla has chosen to break the problem down into manageable chunks by having a parallel team build Servo and push the bleeding edge of performance & features, while having another team break the new code (Servo) and the old code (Gecko) apart into the separate , interchangeable pieces, then clean up standards compliance in the new Servo module and prep it to be replaced.

Essentially, its the Cathedral vs the Bazaar all over again. Microsoft Edge was a ground up rewrite of most of the browser (the Cathedral model of software dev) along with Android (built behind closed doors at Google, then code dumped right before a new major release). Mozilla didn't like how this model could easily backfire, choosing a more metered approach by developing smaller, swappable components in the open.

https://wiki.mozilla.org/Quantum

Re: Linux-based 4G phones with Google Assistant sold for $7 in Indonesia

#192
post #190
post #14

Having spent a couple of years building apps for KaiOS (which is really Firefox OS), I can say that it's probably the easiest development platform out there - mostly pure web; with some proprietary extensions. I wish Firefox OS hadn't thrown in the towel so early. These devices are selling millions of units every month.

> KaiOS (which is really Firefox OS) Thats news to me. I read that KaiOS was built from the ground up & not derived from anything. > Firefox OS hadn't thrown in the towel so early That was a rather quite event and I was surprised to see no much discussion around it. An OS by Mozilla can be more trusted than an OS by Google. Why did Mozilla kill the project?

> Thats news to me. I read that KaiOS was built from the ground up & not derived from anything.

Where did you read that? Read the first sentence of: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KaiOS (all with good citations, e.g., https://support.kaiostech.com/support/solutions/articles/350... )

Re: Linux-based 4G phones with Google Assistant sold for $7 in Indonesia

#193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are however some interesting cheaper cards/adapters/dongles worth of investigating. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/lt4120-Snapdragon-X5-LTE-T77... https://www.amazon.com/powerday-Mini-PCI-Adapter-Module/dp/B... https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2017-Newest-SIM-Card-4G-LTE-... Last one is a complete hotspot and apparently can use the USB port either as a 4G modem (maybe WiFi card also through an internal hub?) or…

Thanks for the links! One note about the last one is that it looks like it only supports WCDMA: 2100MHz so Verizon is your only option for 4G coverage but they don't support LTE B1/B3 according to this chart (could be outdated) https://www.droid-life.com/2015/02/05/us-wireless-carrier-ba...

Band 13 is Verizon's 700Mhz LTE band, and is the core of Verizon's coverage. Band 4 (2.1Ghz downlink from tower, 1.7Ghz uplink from phone) would be nice for speed, but isn't strictly necessary to build something that has LTE. The only major sticking point with this is Verizon has a nasty habit of letting non-approved devices (like this) run for a few weeks, then suddenly bricking them without any notice.

This module meanwhile will work on all of T-Mobile's bands and all of AT&T's commonly deployed bands: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/EC25-AF-Mini-Pcie-CAT4-Wirel...

Neither T-Mobile or AT&T will brick your unapproved device, unlike Verizon.

Re: Linux-based 4G phones with Google Assistant sold for $7 in Indonesia

#194
post #176
post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The SoC they are using (Qualcomm 205) seems to be less than $10 in single unit quantities: https://www.kynix.com/Detail/1331087/MSM8905.html

From that site: 1+: $9.87257 10+: $9.31375 100+: $8.78655 500+: $8.28920 1000+: $7.82000 That is absurdly cheap, and you can be sure with million-unit orders they're probably getting half that price and working direct with the manufacturer. $7.82 per unit @ 1000 for that feature set[1] brings it into the realm of hobbyists to make their own phones. Order the chips, prototype PCB, battery, charger circuit, low-res tou…

Looks like the Qualcomm 205 is a pin compatible replacement for the Snapdragon 210/212, whereby they figured out they could trim out a few hardware chunks (H.265 decoding & 8MP camera support) and save on manufacturing (smaller dies) and licensing costs.

Plus, this cheaper chip can be dropped into phone designs from 2014 (Snapdragon 210) and 2015 (Snapdragon 212) with little to no engineering or software work. Seems like a great way to reuse tested cheap phone designs without additional cost or delay in getting products to market.

Re: Linux-based 4G phones with Google Assistant sold for $7 in Indonesia

#195

I can’t even imagine the environmental / labor horrors that must be involved to allow for a phone to cost $7 retail.

You make a very valid point. It can be easy to forget to consider environmental cost when we consider the cost of an item.

I hate smartphones with a passion, so just use an old dumbphone. I face a lot of pressure through work to have one though. I'm thinking that if I do eventually get forced back into smartphone ownership I'll opt for a Fairphone 2. Major benefits being the improved environmental consideration, the ability to run Lineage OS (so no Google), and the modular approach makes it easy to hack/repair. Main downside is that it is very expensive (to me anyway... I get that many people these days seem to think £1,000 is a reasonable sum for a Facebook/Instagram PDA!).

Re: Linux-based 4G phones with Google Assistant sold for $7 in Indonesia

#196
post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We did exactly that four years ago with JanOS ( http://janos.io/ ), it turned (Firefox OS) mobile phone motherboards into IoT devices. You could also control some GPIO, see http://blog.telenor.io/gonzo/hardware/2015/02/10/gpio.html for an example of remapping the volume buttons to control a new LED. Unfortunately we couldn't find a single OEM that wanted to sell the motherboards if they weren't going in a mobile phon…

Just looked at the website. Very cool project. Are you still mainatining jan os?

No. It’s been defunct since Firefox OS died.

Re: Linux-based 4G phones with Google Assistant sold for $7 in Indonesia

#197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for the links! One note about the last one is that it looks like it only supports WCDMA: 2100MHz so Verizon is your only option for 4G coverage but they don't support LTE B1/B3 according to this chart (could be outdated) https://www.droid-life.com/2015/02/05/us-wireless-carrier-ba...

Band 13 is Verizon's 700Mhz LTE band, and is the core of Verizon's coverage. Band 4 (2.1Ghz downlink from tower, 1.7Ghz uplink from phone) would be nice for speed, but isn't strictly necessary to build something that has LTE. The only major sticking point with this is Verizon has a nasty habit of letting non-approved devices (like this) run for a few weeks, then suddenly bricking them without any notice. This module…

Can you be more specific about that bricking? Although I'm in Europe, so no Verizon over here, it still concerns me that a carrier can render a communication device inoperable.

Re: Linux-based 4G phones with Google Assistant sold for $7 in Indonesia

#198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Band 13 is Verizon's 700Mhz LTE band, and is the core of Verizon's coverage. Band 4 (2.1Ghz downlink from tower, 1.7Ghz uplink from phone) would be nice for speed, but isn't strictly necessary to build something that has LTE. The only major sticking point with this is Verizon has a nasty habit of letting non-approved devices (like this) run for a few weeks, then suddenly bricking them without any notice. This module…

Can you be more specific about that bricking? Although I'm in Europe, so no Verizon over here, it still concerns me that a carrier can render a communication device inoperable.

I imagine he means they blacklist the IMEI, rendering the device useless in the country (if there’s only one carrier that supports the device’s band).

Re: Linux-based 4G phones with Google Assistant sold for $7 in Indonesia

#199
post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait for Pine Phone for $150 [0] or preorder Librem 5 for $649 [1]. However expect beta experience either way. Also remember that you probably don't want to entirely cut Google out of your life, as for example Linux have Google salaried developers. But that's, I imagine, not what you meant. [0] https://forum.pine64.org/showthread.php?tid=7339 - no canonical site yet [1] https://puri.sm/products/librem-5/

Why wait for a $150 phone or preorder a $649 phone while more or less the same thing is available on a $7 phone in India? I think that $7 phone should go on sale in other countries as well, either in its current guise or - probably at a higher price - without the Google bits. It would certainly be an interesting device to use in circumstances where pricey and vulnerable smart phones don't make sense - e.g. when cross…

I would certainly pay more to avoid Google.

Re: Linux-based 4G phones with Google Assistant sold for $7 in Indonesia

#200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you be more specific about that bricking? Although I'm in Europe, so no Verizon over here, it still concerns me that a carrier can render a communication device inoperable.

I imagine he means they blacklist the IMEI, rendering the device useless in the country (if there’s only one carrier that supports the device’s band).

Ah ok, I thought they would mess remotely with the cards FTDI style [1], turning them into paperweights.

[1] https://www.zdnet.com/article/ftdi-admits-to-bricking-innoce...

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