I usually have 2 coffee a day, or 3 some other days. Let say $5 a cup, it will cost $3560 a year. Well, I learn to make coffee. In 2 weeks it cost ~$15 (5$ for a 250g ground coffee, 3$ for 2-3 liters of milk for 2 weeks, $5 for a fancy chocolate power, exclude things like electricity to boil water) Saved $3160 a year while enjoying 2 coffee a day
Don't forget to account for the cost of the equipment you're using as well as the time it takes to use and clean the equipment.
Buy Yourself a Latte
321–330 of 351 posts
Re: Buy Yourself a Latte
#322Earlier quoted context omitted.
We do. It's called social security. Technically, it should be enough to pay the bare minimum of your needs upon retirement, if you're in a low cost-of-living area. It does not ensure a comfortable retirement, and we have enough problems in our government to erode our trust in getting the full payout from the system. It's also "100%" paid out if you wait until 67, or 75% at 62. Also, I note you said "employers must pa…
I just researched social security, it appears more like a pension plan. Our superannuation is entirely our money. When I reach retirement age then every cent I've paid (plus interest) is returned to me. If I run out of money I'm still eligible for the pension. I'm not entirely sure but I think my superannuation is more similar to a compulsory 401k.
Re: Buy Yourself a Latte
#323Earlier quoted context omitted.
> However, many poorer folks need to learn self-control and the power of saving. Counterpoint: the many ways that our economic system can wipe out whatever savings you might have (medical costs, unemployment, legal costs that fall heaviest upon the poor) make spending money on pure luxury - or even the lottery for that matter - a perfectly rational action. If you don't believe your savings will be there tomorrow, why…
I know this is well studied and has to do with the poverty mindset, but that doesn't mean it's mathematically rational. Sure, if you live paycheck to paycheck and somehow this week have an extra $5 leftover, you might as well spend it. But if you have $80 left over, after a year of saving you could have a reasonable emergency fund.
It's not a mindset problem.
Re: Buy Yourself a Latte
#324At the end of the day you have X expenses and Y income, with some unknowns and variations thrown in the mix. There’s no reason it has to be a mystery. You can actually make an informed choice about that latte, and balance it with your desire to save for the future, live a little now, etc.
Re: Buy Yourself a Latte
#325Re: Buy Yourself a Latte
#326The coffee stands for any and all small, regular and avoidable expenses, where minor lifestyle adjustments add up to major savings.
Using a family plan on subscriptions and phone plans, cooking your own meals, weighing the actual cost of owning a certain car / carpooling...... All of these are things are very small, yet regular expenses in a person's life. These things add up.
The lack of mindfulness of such expenses leads to fast and untracked lifestyle creep. The proven also warns against that.
My peers living expenses went up 5 fold, and each of them claims that nothing has changed.
Re: Buy Yourself a Latte
#327If part of your audience consists of people living without much a safety net, that $5 a day adds up. Also, the author's point that saving that much isn't going to be $1 million, but "only" as much as $500,000 then that point rather falls flat. Sure, inflation may decrease the utility of that amount of money, but it will also increase the cost of that latte, so you'll be saving more than just the $5 over time. Finally…
that $5 a day adds up The article isn't advocating that you buy a coffee every single day. It's saying a. focus on larger issues and b. it's okay to do a little self care and a little self indulgence. I sometimes bought myself a fucking coffee of some sort at Starbuck's back when I was homeless. I needed the caffeine to help treat health issues. It let me plug in for an hour and get some electricity for my tablet, pl…
Yes but is spending money on little things you don't need really taking care of yourself? I don't like the mindset that the only way to treat yourself or take care of yourself is to buy things.
Re: Buy Yourself a Latte
#328Earlier quoted context omitted.
If someone has that marginal an income, they will never even begin to start a savings plan, nor will that money survive to retirement. It will be gobbled up by the first medical or vehicular emergency that comes up.
He/she is talking about the UK, where the burden of healthcare costs are shared by all taxpayers and there are no nasty surprises after a visit to the emergency room.
Re: Buy Yourself a Latte
#329If part of your audience consists of people living without much a safety net, that $5 a day adds up. Also, the author's point that saving that much isn't going to be $1 million, but "only" as much as $500,000 then that point rather falls flat. Sure, inflation may decrease the utility of that amount of money, but it will also increase the cost of that latte, so you'll be saving more than just the $5 over time. Finally…
it all depends on timing, ie the investment phase... If you are in your early 20s than yes every penny invested counts more given a 40 year plan to invest for retirement as the interest compounded adds up. However, those at the end of their retirement investment plan say in the last ten years its a different story where $5 a day will not matter much in terms of increasing investment funds for retirement.
It's really simple. If you don't spend $5 now and you even get close to matching inflation that's a few dollars you will have in retirement.
Most people seem to miss the point entirely on this and go off on some sort of weird tangent into calculation of exponential returns or whatever.
The simple fact is that when you no longer have a job, having money is useful.
Re: Buy Yourself a Latte
#330Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Impoverished people aren't poor because they occasionally buy coffee Impoverished people might be poor because they take everything literally and can't see the big picture though. Yes, frivolous spending absolutely has something to do with poverty. It's so clear and obvious and when I look at every example of a person that I know that could be called poor vs someone that is rich there is the same pattern: The poor…
"Rich people I know LOVE to work. They would work for free." Would they work fast food for as many hours? How about in a call center where half the customers are angry and taking it out on you? How about if they couldn't afford the basics in life from the job? How about if they couldn't afford health care or food, so when working they are always tired? The rich people you know don't have to deal with the crap poor fo…
You don't fully understand how these "next door millionaire" types operate. They don't look at something and say "that's fast food work". They work at what is necessary for however long it takes. My girlfriend is building her two businesses, she spends nights in the basement sewing piece after piece by the dozens and the days churning out t-shirt design after t-shirt design. If you break down her "working conditions" and "hourly wage" I am pretty sure a fast food job would look better on paper. But she is on a growth path while the average worker (it's not like this is foreign to me) is just looking to get off of work and get spending which is is a path to nothing.
> you know don't have to deal with the crap poor folks do.
The infuriating part about it is exactly that a lot of the "crap" that happens to them is self-inflicted. I know this "poor" woman who had a child in order to get a guy who wasn't even the father into a relationship with her (yes, you read that right), then while pregnant smoked and ate only garbage. Now the child has birth defects, likely from the smoking, and at three is already one year developmentally delayed because even though she is on the generous German welfare she didn't see fit to spend any time playing or going outside with him. She has a car that she "needs" because she is so skinny fat that she literally can't walk to the next bus stop. So what does she do when she get's any kind of money? Spends it on new rims, trims and whatever crap people put on their cars to "soup" them up. All of the ideas she has about life are false and destructive and everything she does is wrong. There is no helping her. We really tried but she is literally too dumb to make connections between actions and consequences. Instead all of here brain power seems to go to thinking up stories to feel better about herself. It's impossible. She is a bottomless pit and resources keep pouring into it. She had years on welfare even though she could work. She got gifted three cars by friends. She get's "free" healthcare that will sort out the consequences of her very bad habits. Now the state is paying extra for a special needs kindergarden for her son. It's never enough, it can't ever be enough. What she needs are some of the existential problems you mentioned so that she has to get her shit together.
> Poor people don't have this luxury. Everyone would rather have comfortable shoes, but if you only have $15 for shoes and can't save up for 6 months for something better, you have to buy the $15 shoes. Even with good maintenance, $15 shoes aren't going to last like $100 shoes.
To the larger point : this is the Sam Vimes theory of social economic justice and yeah, it's truly hard to break a vicious cycle. That's why it's absolutely imperative to start a virtuous cycle no matter how tiny because it can make a huge difference over time. Start making your own coffee, save $5 here and there now you have $50. Oh what's that, a WIDGETGARGBLASTER at half price? Well, I'm pretty sure my car will need one soon, I am going to use my nest egg to buy that for cheap. Thank god I had this WIDGETGAGBLASTER because wouldn't you know it, my car broke down just as I was about to go for my job interview. I mean it's contrived sure but in three steps saving $5 a day already could've made a difference in 10000s of dollars in lifetime earnings.
To the concrete example: under capitalism what's actually true is that you can get garbage for tiny prices, very decent quality at low prices, super value at medium prices and luxury for high prices. The kind of poverty where hard-working people want for basic material things is abolished and it's really weird that people keep arguing as if it still existed. What's a lot closer reality is that the next door millionaire type has $50 leather shoes from ten years ago while the 'poor' person has a $500 dollar sneaker 'collection' financed by credit card debt.
> poverty deprives you of chances to practice long-term financial planning
Clearly this is putting the cart before the horse.
> I'm going to guess if lotteries paid out monthly for as many years as jobs do, things would look different
No, it would be worse. You have a steady, guaranteed income like that you can borrow against it and the instant gratification crowd is going to do just that.
Here is some food for though about the scope of poverty: http://www.aei.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/MiddleClass_20...
And the causes of poverty: https://thefederalist.com/2018/05/24/study-no-1-reason-ameri...
"Americans who graduate high school, work full time (even at minimum wage), and marry before having kids are essentially guaranteed to not live in poverty. These are all choices, not happenstance."