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Startup Lessons, Courtesy of United Airlines’ Crappy Customer Service

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Re: Startup Lessons, Courtesy of United Airlines’ Crappy Customer Service

#31
post #6

I'm always astounded why so many companies seem more willing to lose a loyal repeat customer than take a small hit on the bottom line for a particular transaction. Companies like NewEgg, Costco, and Zappos have demonstrated how being willing to take a small hit on some transactions can engender a fanatical customer base, but it seems most companies still prefer to be penny wise and pound foolish.

This works differently for retail businesses than it does for airlines. If I'm looking to buy a pair of shoes online, I have multiple options that are all roughly the same price. But I always buy them from Zappo's because I know I'll get good customer service. When I buy a plane ticket, I have a specific route I need to fly on a particular date. I want the flight with the fewest stops. The price difference is often h…

I'm not sure, I've passed up moderate savings ($70 on a $400 flight or so) to go on an airline I prefered. Delta has been a PITA every time I've flown with them, where Southwest has been my airline of choice for over a decade, it's an easy decision to give my money to the people who don't cause pain for me every time.

Re: Startup Lessons, Courtesy of United Airlines’ Crappy Customer Service

#32

Why not send an email/text to you saying that they noticed that he missed the first part of the flight and: 1) Is he OK? 2) Does he still want to use the second leg of the flight (and maybe check in now)? With the default being that he will want to use it? With a simple bit of communication, that could have been completely automated, they managed to annoy a paying customer.

Well, in their mind, he's an evil guy that's trying to game the pricing system that they broke by allowing it to be cheaper to buy a round-trip than to buy one half of that round trip.

So if they let him keep his return flight, they wouldn't really be preventing anyone from doing that.

Re: Startup Lessons, Courtesy of United Airlines’ Crappy Customer Service

#33
post #12

"after all, how much can you actually save by [skipping a flight]"? Many airlines have complicated pricing models that attempt to capture market demand. For example, I just looked up flights from Portland, ME to Los Angeles, departing on Jan 19 and returning Jan 26. If you take US and connect through Philadelphia, the cheapest price is $309. If you were to fly from Philadelphia to Los Angeles non-stop on that same da…

In summary, they can game us but we can't game them.

The asymmetric information barrier that airlines have setup is going to disappear soon. There are plenty of site working on breaking it down.

In the case of the author of the post, he now has a preference for an airline. I bet he would now pay extra for a flight on Virgin. When is the last time someone became a fan of United AA or Delta?

Re: Startup Lessons, Courtesy of United Airlines’ Crappy Customer Service

#34
It is worth remembering how airlines price tickets:

Pricing is not based on how much it costs the airline to get you to your destination (i.e. distance and fuel). Airlines long ago figured out how to extract the most money for various flights based on where they fit in the big picture of WHY someone is traveling.

This is why a round trip that includes a Saturday stay over is usually cheaper than a round trip leaving on Monday and returning Wednesday. Airlines know the second traveling is most likely a business person and willing to pay more.

I was recently planning two trips. I needed to go to Las Vegas on one trip and to Atlanta on another (both from Virginia). On the same day, the Las Vegas trip was twice as expensive as the round trip to Atlanta and back, EVEN THOUGH, the Las Vegas flight had a layover in Atlanta. Could I have just booked a flight to Las Vegas when I wanted to go to Atlanta and just not gotten on my second flight? I could, but then the airline would cancel my return trip. They would say its because they assume I never made it to my final destination and didn't need my return flights, but really, it is because they want to prevent this sort of thing.

Airline prices are not logical (to us). They are based on extracting the most amount of money from a schedule.

(of course, this doesn't excuse crappy treatment, but, just so we're all clear...)

Re: Startup Lessons, Courtesy of United Airlines’ Crappy Customer Service

#35
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

why would an airline cancel your flight if you skip part of it? didn't you outright buy the tickets in the first place?

Because there is a very high correlation between missing the first leg and missing the second leg perhaps?

The main reason is really to try to maintain their market segmentation by prohibiting people from buying tickets other than exactly the ones they choose to fly. If they allowed this, it'd be impossible for them to charge more for one-way tickets than round-trip tickets, as many airlines do.

Other prohibited things include: buying a one-stop "A->B->C" ticket and then getting off in B, because you really wanted to go A->B, but it was priced higher; and buying two opposite-direction interlocking round trips, in order to make two short trips appear to be two overlapping longer trips (thus avoiding the "short trip" fare penalties).

Basically airlines are trying to run a purposely inefficient market, and as always happens in such markets, market participants attempt arbitrage strategies, and here the airlines are attempting in turn to prohibit the arbitrage strategies.

Re: Startup Lessons, Courtesy of United Airlines’ Crappy Customer Service

#36
I'm curious if he's ever flown much before. Missing the first leg of a discount coach r/t canceling the entire reservation has been standard since at least 1980. Yes, their online systems should be better at explaining what happens once you've missed a flight, but fundamentally the web apps for airlines are dirty hacks layered on top of mainframe systems, and don't handle exceptions particularly well.

Airline pricing is incredibly complex because...it is a complex product. It's a perishable product, and they are trying to price discriminate multiple classes of people, dealing with competitors, etc. It is very common to have the case he considers rare (XXX-YYY-XXX costing >2x what YYY-XXX-YYY costs -- especially international, where different currencies, taxes, etc. apply). XXX-YYY often costs 4-8x the cost of XXX-YYY-XXX or YYY-XXX-YYY r/t, too.

There are certain routes which are run as "air shuttles" -- you can buy a ticket, and then walk on and get on any available flight. SIN-KUL, IAD-NYC, etc. Some airlines have very simple routing and fares (Southwest, for instance) and can more easily be used for flexible travel. First Class or Full Fare Coach tickets are also used by businesses or other travelers who demand extreme flexibility -- the $170 r/t SFO-LAX-SFO was a discounted coach fare where price discrimination in terms of restrictive terms applies.

Additionally, airlines are highly regulated, some by international treaty (read the back of a ticket jacket sometime).

As for "not screwing a major customer over", a frequent flyer would be 1K or GS and worth $50k+/yr to the airline, and would probably have been able to easily get his ticket changed. Yes, price discrimination and market segmentation sucks when you lose the game, but it maximizes revenue for the carrier.

Btw, the "hacker news" of "airline hacking" is flyertalk.com. There are people who craft amazing itineraries and maximize frequent flyer points in ways which seem absurd (scheduling 4 r/t back to back flights across the US to Hawaii just to get miles, or flying SFO - Taipei - LAX for the cost of SFO-LAX to get huge extra miles).

Re: Startup Lessons, Courtesy of United Airlines’ Crappy Customer Service

#37
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If he was no longer a customer, I assume they refunded his money? If they did not refund his money, he was still a customer - a customer who was denied his product, certainly, but a customer nonetheless. If you buy my product, and I don't deliver it to you for reason X, that doesn't mean you're not my customer. It just means I suck at delivering my product.

What if I choose not to pick up the product at the time we agreed upon without notifying you, causing you to make decisions about inventory and perhaps selling the product to someone else, and then return to you demanding the product at a later date?

He already paid for the product. In fact the delivery of the product came in 2 shipments.

For the first shipment he basically said to throw in the trash, now you as a business could throw it in the trash, or resell it since it's going to waste.

The customer was there for the second shipment yet you were not there to deliver.

Re: Startup Lessons, Courtesy of United Airlines’ Crappy Customer Service

#38
I disagree.

First, I'm very surprised that you were not aware of the policy that if you don't take the first part of an itinerary, you won't be able to catch up half-way. I guess it's something everyone learns very quickly.

Second, your proposal that United should fix their prices is disingenuous. They would if it didn't mean bankruptcy for them. The reason they do that is that most of their income comes from business travelers who can expense expensive tickets in economy class. The way to detect a business traveler versus a tourist is whether they spend the Saturday at their destination. The business traveler flys on a Tuesday and return the next day or so, never stays over. So they get charged 3X more.

If United just "fixed" their prices, it would be a complete collapse. A handful of airlines have chosen the "per-segment" price approach (Southwest, JetBlue, Virgin).

So recognize the cool hack for what it is: Saturday night stay equals deep discount.

Re: Startup Lessons, Courtesy of United Airlines’ Crappy Customer Service

#39
The same thing happened to me on Delta/North West last winter: I missed my flight and booked a new one without telling customer service. Seems pretty par for the course overall. The difference is I was able to apply what I had spent on the canceled round trip to book my flight home once I found out that they had booted me.

Re: Startup Lessons, Courtesy of United Airlines’ Crappy Customer Service

#40
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

why would an airline cancel your flight if you skip part of it? didn't you outright buy the tickets in the first place?

Because there is a very high correlation between missing the first leg and missing the second leg perhaps?

They should be happy. He paid for the ticket and they get a weight savings which should help with the fuel costs.
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