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Amazon bought Eero for $97M and employees still got screwed

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Re: Amazon bought Eero for $97M and employees still got screwed

#61

I don't understand what people expect in this kind of situation. The company was bought for around the amount of money that they took in investment, or less. Why would the employees get anything? If preference didn't exist, and I could take $10M in investment at $100M in valuation, and then the next day liquidate the company, return $1M, and keep $9M, obviously that would just mean that nobody would invest in startup…

I think what people expect in this situation is that they understand the equity agreement.

Startups consistently ask engineers to work extra hours "because equity," and then ask those same employees to trust the complex contracts.

Looks like a somewhat rigged/disingenuous system to me.

Re: Amazon bought Eero for $97M and employees still got screwed

#62
post #47

I don't understand what people expect in this kind of situation. The company was bought for around the amount of money that they took in investment, or less. Why would the employees get anything? If preference didn't exist, and I could take $10M in investment at $100M in valuation, and then the next day liquidate the company, return $1M, and keep $9M, obviously that would just mean that nobody would invest in startup…

Honestly confused: why do you want to pay bonuses to retain execs of a failed company? Weren’t they responsible for that failure?

Not entirely: markets, competition, nature, people, etc. Is it 100% fair market? Well that's what a good portion of the article is also about.

Re: Amazon bought Eero for $97M and employees still got screwed

#63
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why would the employees get anything? This may be the most tone-deaf thing I've read in a long-ass time. BECAUSE THEY DID THE (...) WORK!

Yes, of course they did work. For which they got a salary. Of course, if they worked for equity rather than cash, that was their call and one would expect them to bear the outcome.

[deleted]

Re: Amazon bought Eero for $97M and employees still got screwed

#65
post #47

I don't understand what people expect in this kind of situation. The company was bought for around the amount of money that they took in investment, or less. Why would the employees get anything? If preference didn't exist, and I could take $10M in investment at $100M in valuation, and then the next day liquidate the company, return $1M, and keep $9M, obviously that would just mean that nobody would invest in startup…

Honestly confused: why do you want to pay bonuses to retain execs of a failed company? Weren’t they responsible for that failure?

I'd imagine the founders and execs aren't needed or wanted outside of ensuring basic continuity of the business short term. But they negotiated benefits for themselves and not the other employees because they were the ones negotiating.

Re: Amazon bought Eero for $97M and employees still got screwed

#66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>potential startup employees internalize the economic reality of working at a startup. Treat your salary as your total income and equity as a lottery ticket?

Nailed it. Also, loyalty only to yourself. You are a mercenary, seeking the highest total comp you can, ready to move jobs on a whim.

I see that as a bleak worldview. Yes, it's important to acknowledge that the company you work for does not have your best interests in heart. I don't think seeking the highest comp possible, at the expense of other factors, is generally a good strategy though.

There is more to the quality of a job and your life than having the highest total comp possible.

Having a lasting and enjoyable connection with your teammates is valuable too; you spend hours a day interacting with them, and teams of people you can really get along with are few and far between.

If jumping ship every 6 months maximizes your comp, but you never get the chance to create professional relationships as you jump from ship to ship, I'd say that's going to usually be a bad tradeoff.

There are other axis as well, such as a team with a reasonable manager who lets you spend time with your family, or a company that works in an area that aligns particularly well with your interests.

Re: Amazon bought Eero for $97M and employees still got screwed

#67
In these type of situations, all employees receive cash bonuses and "parachute payment" (total comp). I'm willing to bet the executives' compensation packages from Amazon are roughly 1 order of magnitude more than the average employee received. Foundational employees are likely sitting near 11-20 on the list getting remarkably fair packages that don't look too different form 1-10. If you stacked up all the employees total comp, it would most likely follow a normal distribution and probably aligns pretty closely to employee tenure and level.

I believe the article presents a false dichotomy: execs did well while early employees got shit. In reality, employees who were with the company at the time of the sale all fared similarly and comp looks essentially like it would if you dropped them all into similar roles at independently.

The people that lost out were investors.

The dichotomy is actually: people who invested money vs people who didn't. If you bought into eero, in this case, you lost money across the board. The only factor affecting investors was the liquidation preference between preferred and common stock, and the first-in-last-out payout priority for preferred stock (both of which are absolutely standard). Buying stock options has always been a lottery ticket. I don't think anything insidious happened here... not all companies are unicorns.

Re: Amazon bought Eero for $97M and employees still got screwed

#68
post #34

I don't understand what people expect in this kind of situation. The company was bought for around the amount of money that they took in investment, or less. Why would the employees get anything? If preference didn't exist, and I could take $10M in investment at $100M in valuation, and then the next day liquidate the company, return $1M, and keep $9M, obviously that would just mean that nobody would invest in startup…

> Final sale price was $97 million. > Crunchbase reports that Eero took $90 million in venture capital (the Wall Street Journal put the number at $100 million). PitchBook, a highly accurate source of VC information, claimed a final $40 million Series D fundraising round from December 2017 brought that number up to $138 million. Eero declined to comment, instead pointing to a March 12 blog post confirming the sale. >…

That's actually not a bad idea, as a backstop.

Re: Amazon bought Eero for $97M and employees still got screwed

#69
post #58
post #36

Again, if your offer includes a stock grant/option/whatever stake that doesn't have the same priority as those owned by the executive team then you need to treat it as having zero value. If a company believe its stock is sufficiently valuable to be worth being used as compensation then it shouldn't feel the need to give pre-IPO employees low-priority "equity". I recognize people argue that you're taking a lower salar…

I don't understand why you think such black-and-white thinking is needed. The correct thing should be to appropriately discount the options to account for these things instead of saying it's zero. Sure, walking in with the naive approach will lead most people to vastly overvalue options, but I feel like the counter movement you're championing here acts as if no early employee has ever earned money on options no matte…

As the amount of risk in the equity increases, the expected value of the equity reduces to zero.

So anything that reduces the priority of employee equity vs that of the original employees and investors implicitly increases the risk in addition to the explicit reduction in face value.

The real problem to me has been the absurd notion that someone explicitly investing cash is somehow investing more on a dollar for dollar basis than regular employees.

* VC or whatever invests a dollar amount: they write a cheque.

* Employee invests a dollar amount: Employees at startups are expected to work 80 hours a week, so if we're assuming a regular job is 40 hours a week, then their salary should be twice their regular market rate salary. So in that case, an employee is making an annually recurring investment of (2 * market rate salary - actual salary).

In spite of this a VC or whatever gets priority on getting that money back, gets a say in the running of the company, ownership/dollar lower than "equity" grants to employees. The employee gets no voting rights, has a reduced payout priority, and on top of all of that even if the equity grants were equal, the employee is still taking more risk than the cash investors because the company is also their source of employment: if the company fails every one loses their investment, but employees have also lost their jobs.

So if anyone should get higher priority for divestment opportunities it should be employees - think of it this way: if you have 10 developers working for 100k, vs. a market rate of 150k, and they're working 80 hours a week, you are looking at a per-employee annual investment of 200k. If you have 10 employees, they are collectively investing $2million a year. That's getting super close to the "big" funding rounds (and for many cases more than) from various startups.

In response to the claim that they're not providing cash flow: if you were paying market rates, you would need to find a separate investor to raise cash for twice as many employees, all being paid more. That sounds like they're providing cashflow.

Re: Amazon bought Eero for $97M and employees still got screwed

#70

I don't understand what people expect in this kind of situation. The company was bought for around the amount of money that they took in investment, or less. Why would the employees get anything? If preference didn't exist, and I could take $10M in investment at $100M in valuation, and then the next day liquidate the company, return $1M, and keep $9M, obviously that would just mean that nobody would invest in startup…

YC’s own Sam Altman finagled a “single-digit millions” package when selling his startup, Loopt, for barely more money than it raised.
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