Buy Yourself a Latte • Hacker News Board

Re: Buy Yourself a Latte

#241

Post by jowiar » Fri, Apr 05, 2019, 10:29 PM UTC

ZeroFries wrote: post #225

thaumaturgy wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was an illustrative article on this topic a few years ago [1]: "It’s not like the sacrifice will result in improved circumstances; the thing holding me back isn’t that I blow five bucks at Wendy’s. It’s that now that I have proven that I am a Poor Person that is all that I am or ever will be. It is not worth it to me to live a bleak life devoid of small pleasures so that one day I can make a single large purcha…

It's infuriating in the same way that "move more, eat less" is infuriating to obese people. It's infuriating because it doesn't pan out in practice for a lot of people trying. However, the advice is still sound to some degree, because it does work for the people who are actually able to follow it. Now, to blame it on the economic system is going too far IMO. Can you point to an economic system in practice with lower…

Capitalism coupled with a tax and social service regime that hasn’t been torn apart over the past half century, for one.

It’s not all or nothing, and all or nothing thinking by fanatics of “Jesus” and Capitalism has destroyed America.

Re: Buy Yourself a Latte

#242

Post by whalabi » Fri, Apr 05, 2019, 10:30 PM UTC

thaumaturgy wrote: post #149

DoreenMichele wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

that $5 a day adds up The article isn't advocating that you buy a coffee every single day. It's saying a. focus on larger issues and b. it's okay to do a little self care and a little self indulgence. I sometimes bought myself a fucking coffee of some sort at Starbuck's back when I was homeless. I needed the caffeine to help treat health issues. It let me plug in for an hour and get some electricity for my tablet, pl…

There was an illustrative article on this topic a few years ago [1]: "It’s not like the sacrifice will result in improved circumstances; the thing holding me back isn’t that I blow five bucks at Wendy’s. It’s that now that I have proven that I am a Poor Person that is all that I am or ever will be. It is not worth it to me to live a bleak life devoid of small pleasures so that one day I can make a single large purcha…

I don't find his/her attitude infuriating.

If you're on a wage where you're not sure if you'll ever be able to afford your own home, that $5 does add up.

It was around 1% of my income recently. I want a house yesterday.

I think the best solution to all this is what I ended up doing: buy a cheap but good espresso machine and enjoy delicious cheap coffee.

Re: Buy Yourself a Latte

#243

Post by aristophenes » Fri, Apr 05, 2019, 10:30 PM UTC

codr7 wrote: post #186

I grew up in a poor family, could never afford anything unless miracles happened, never went on any trips etc. I later scaled all the way up to much more than I needed as a software developer and lately I'm pretty much down to nothing. The main thing I learned over 42 years of going back and forth is that a warm place to sleep, good health, good food (and coffee) and nice, caring people are priceless. Money is the ul…

Your post was great until you started framing that spending money you don't have was evidence of freedom. Whether you like it or not, when you do that you are giving money power over you that it shouldn't have. If you make almost no money, but can be content with the basics you mentioned and spend less than you earn, then yes you are more free than someone with millions who is obsessed with getting more. But if you can't help but spend money you don't have on things you don't need, money will continue to be a problem for you and something already has power over you. Maybe you don't have a money problem, maybe you have a money problem and a coffee problem.

The real problem I have with the author's mentality is that in real life it seems like the coffee is the symptom, not the disease. It's an easily identifiable marker that there are probably a lot of other things you are wasting money on. Sure the coffee only adds up to a couple years worth of income at the end of your life as the article points out, but everything else adds up quick, and you wonder how you aren't really ever earning enough to start saving at all.

For the author, who presumably makes millions a year, and his clients who do the same, it's good to not get tripped up on the small stuff to focus properly on the bigger picture. Doesn't mean that advice applies the same to the rest of us.

Re: Buy Yourself a Latte

#244

Post by fma » Fri, Apr 05, 2019, 10:31 PM UTC

I know latte is the common reference but I'm shifting my mindset lately, especially having a family. I brew my own coffee at home and pretty frugal. But now if things cost a but more and is convenient, I'll pay for it. For example, parking at the venue vs free street parking. Having two kids in tow is pretty difficult to get them orderly in the car.

Paying a little extra for 2 hotel rooms, versus squeezing youe in laws, 2 kids and yourself and spouse in 1 room...

Re: Buy Yourself a Latte

#245

Post by isoskeles » Fri, Apr 05, 2019, 10:35 PM UTC

Author is trying to advocate that people think of themselves as victims in the world, where things simply happen to them. Wages are stagnant, inflation happens, etc. Some of this may be true. But regardless, I'll attempt to save money as I can, rather than throw my hands up and say none of this matters and piss it all away on coffee.

Re: Buy Yourself a Latte

#246

Post by isoskeles » Fri, Apr 05, 2019, 10:36 PM UTC

DoreenMichele wrote: post #112

ineedasername wrote: post #46

If part of your audience consists of people living without much a safety net, that $5 a day adds up. Also, the author's point that saving that much isn't going to be $1 million, but "only" as much as $500,000 then that point rather falls flat. Sure, inflation may decrease the utility of that amount of money, but it will also increase the cost of that latte, so you'll be saving more than just the $5 over time. Finally…

that $5 a day adds up The article isn't advocating that you buy a coffee every single day. It's saying a. focus on larger issues and b. it's okay to do a little self care and a little self indulgence. I sometimes bought myself a fucking coffee of some sort at Starbuck's back when I was homeless. I needed the caffeine to help treat health issues. It let me plug in for an hour and get some electricity for my tablet, pl…

It's saying focus on issues mostly out of your control (inflation). I'd prefer to focus on the things that are in my control.

I agree that some level of indulgence is okay, obviously this is a balance. Everyone has to figure out what they're comfortable with here, but some people we know may have become way too comfortable and complacent yet still want to complain about their financial situation. These are the people who need to figure out why and how to adjust their behavior.

Re: Buy Yourself a Latte

#247

Post by aristophenes » Fri, Apr 05, 2019, 10:36 PM UTC

benj111 wrote: post #198

codr7 wrote: post #186

I grew up in a poor family, could never afford anything unless miracles happened, never went on any trips etc. I later scaled all the way up to much more than I needed as a software developer and lately I'm pretty much down to nothing. The main thing I learned over 42 years of going back and forth is that a warm place to sleep, good health, good food (and coffee) and nice, caring people are priceless. Money is the ul…

"Dropping $5 you don't have on overpriced coffee is proving that it has no power over you" Surely it depends on motivation? I wouldn't say money has power over me, but I want to be a responsible member of society, pay my own way etc, so I make sure I have money to buy coffee now and in the future. Whereas if you're buying overprice coffee with money you don't have, just to impress your mates, that think you're rich a…

I think there might be a cultural difference here. In the USA coffee is not a status symbol (as far as I have experienced), I've heard that it is elsewhere. In the US it's more like just a regular addiction. Coffee drinkers need to drink coffee or they feel miserable. They can make it themselves cheap, or get a nice cup at a store.

Re: Buy Yourself a Latte

#248

Post by codr7 » Fri, Apr 05, 2019, 10:39 PM UTC

aristophenes wrote: post #243

codr7 wrote: post #186

I grew up in a poor family, could never afford anything unless miracles happened, never went on any trips etc. I later scaled all the way up to much more than I needed as a software developer and lately I'm pretty much down to nothing. The main thing I learned over 42 years of going back and forth is that a warm place to sleep, good health, good food (and coffee) and nice, caring people are priceless. Money is the ul…

Your post was great until you started framing that spending money you don't have was evidence of freedom. Whether you like it or not, when you do that you are giving money power over you that it shouldn't have. If you make almost no money, but can be content with the basics you mentioned and spend less than you earn, then yes you are more free than someone with millions who is obsessed with getting more. But if you c…

What you don't care about doesn't have any power over you, period.

I can help spending money on what I don't need, but I just don't care most of the time.

If I don't get coffee, that's also not a major problem.

I think the point is that no one ever got rich by saving $5 a day, never happened and probably never will.

Re: Buy Yourself a Latte

#249

Post by munk-a » Fri, Apr 05, 2019, 10:40 PM UTC

codr7 wrote: post #213

bduerst wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same for me, but on the flipside I would say that learning to be fastidious with disposable income and growing my wealth was something I had to learn about the hard way, since I never had any exposure to this type of planning when growing up. It's not really who controls who here, it's about knowing you're secure about the future while still enjoying the moment, even a latte. Maybe we're saying the same thing but in…

Life has a funny way of pulling the rug just to prove you wrong when it comes to security. You are not your bank account.

Life can throw you a turn and you might be hit by a car tomorrow but... chances are that won't happen.

There are people who devote themselves to living in the moment, push all their money into the now and whatever instant gratification they can get. In no specific case can you prove that's a terrible idea without knowledge of the future, but I think we can all say that quitting your job to shoot up heroin is a choice that deprives you of many of the joys of life.

AND YET, while I stand by everything above, buying into a system that deprives you of your life in the hope that you might be able to scratch out a living in your sunset years is awful and modern societies push toward "Be prudent toward your retirement" is one we need to balance with the joy of letting ourselves step out of the rat-race on occasion to enjoy stuff.

Either way, I think the OP is demonstrating the worst choice of both worlds, no where in his statement is it implied he's actually buying a coffee to gain enjoyment, just to reject the necessity of money - that's just a terrible reason... enjoy things, treat yourself, be conservative with constant spending and live life.

And lastly, coffee is complicated. The article and OP might be referring to the occasional splurge on a nice latte to relax with, but it could easily be read as the activity that turns into a fixed cost - buying coffee because your daily life has sapped you of everything you are to the point where Caffeine is the only place you think you can find the energy to carry on. I have OSA (sleep apnea) and feel into this sort of trap for a little while before I got a CPAP, it was dark depressing time that I wish on no one.

Re: Buy Yourself a Latte

#250

Post by isoskeles » Fri, Apr 05, 2019, 10:43 PM UTC

biesnecker wrote: post #158

devoply wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are 20 years old and you start putting away $5/day and have 500k in the bank at 60. Who can argue with that. In fact they should pass a law to make this mandatory on everyone. It would greatly improve the lives of literally everyone.

Sure, but if you had affordable education and housing and healthcare, and real wage growth that kept up with productivity increases, you'd have millions in the bank AND you'd have a latte every day.

Which one does an individual have control over?