Buy Yourself a Latte • Hacker News Board

Re: Buy Yourself a Latte

#231

Post by pjohri » Fri, Apr 05, 2019, 10:03 PM UTC

as an immigrant who came to the US with nothing and having held high paying software jobs for the past 20 years, I still find it unacceptable to drop $5 on lattes.

the reason has little to do with whether one can afford the $5 latte or not.

the $5 latte/day or multiple lattes as most of my Starbucks card toting colleagues go for even when we have gourmet free coffee in the office is a symptom of something else.

usually, it is a classic symptom of consumerism - and not having one’s overall finances in order. of not having a plan in place to save first and spend later.

when one drops $5/day on a latte when a 50c coffee at would do, one drops similar amounts on most everything else - an expensive shampoo instead of a basic one, branded shoes and clothes, ... and so on

at least that is where I find myself today - my habits have changed over the past two decades - from being able to find happiness in simplicity to getting addicted to consumerism.

Re: Buy Yourself a Latte

#232

Post by rflrob » Fri, Apr 05, 2019, 10:06 PM UTC

cafogleman wrote: post #61

This is closely related to the idea of being "penny wise and pound foolish." For instance, you are actively depriving yourself a $5 coffee per day (or substitute your vice of choice) but you're leasing a new car every 2 years. In this case, you are not only cutting the wrong indulgences in the name of savings, you are giving yourself a false sense of accomplishment when there are much more beneficial steps that could…

I assume that the Suze Ormans of the world would tell you to be not just pennywise but poundwise as well. The $5 latte is emblematic: once you start thinking about that $100 monthly expense, you sit and look at your $90 cable bill or your $200 car lease and think whether there are ways to cut back on that as well. The value of cutting out lattes is that it's easy to ask, on a regular basis, "is this making me $5 worth of happy?", whereas a big car payment you can more easily justify as "I need it to get where I'm going", even though a cheaper vehicle could do just as well.

I agree it's more efficient to start with the big expenses and work your way down, but it's sometimes easier, especially if you're just starting to turn your finances around, to start with the little stuff and build your way up.

Re: Buy Yourself a Latte

#233

Post by ZeroFries » Fri, Apr 05, 2019, 10:10 PM UTC

DoreenMichele wrote: post #205

nugget wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It is not how most rich people got rich by any stretch of the imagination. Have you read the Millionaire Next Door? I suppose it depends how you define "rich" these days, but the data in that book seems to indicate that most US dollar millionaire households are dual middle income workers who live below their means for decades and actively save and invest the difference.

Most poor people are poor because they have special needs and/or are responsible for others with such. They can't reliably work a full time job or doing so comes at a real cost and they are constantly working at just being able to show up at all. From what I have read, most rich people are business people. They got there by growing a thing of value. They own the local gas station or, these days, they got into YC and…

It's not victim blaming to say saving money on discretionary purchases might improve your financial status and therefore quality of life. This is true regardless of disability status, life situation, etc. If you don't think that's the case, and the discretionary purchase is worth the cost to you, then the advice doesn't apply and you can ignore it.

Re: Buy Yourself a Latte

#234

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Apr 05, 2019, 10:11 PM UTC

[deleted]

Re: Buy Yourself a Latte

#235

Post by DoreenMichele » Fri, Apr 05, 2019, 10:12 PM UTC

jimbokun wrote: post #229

DoreenMichele wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most poor people are poor because they have special needs and/or are responsible for others with such. They can't reliably work a full time job or doing so comes at a real cost and they are constantly working at just being able to show up at all. From what I have read, most rich people are business people. They got there by growing a thing of value. They own the local gas station or, these days, they got into YC and…

I hear you, but I think the $5 latte advice is aimed at the two middle income earning households, who have stable jobs but still think they are poor because they have poor impulse control when it comes to spending. I don't think that advice is generally meant for the actually poor.

We have more income inequality here lately than in The Gilded Age. Lots of middle earners are being squeezed by a combo of high medical costs, high housing costs and high transportation costs because it's nigh impossible to live without a car for many Americans.

This is why we have expressions like "The 99 Percent" -- because a stable, secure middle class lifestyle that you can reliably build a secure future upon has largely gone extinct.

If we are going to find a way out of this mess, it won't be by acting like "The 99 Percent" need to stop being undisciplined slobs pissing away potential trust funds for their children because they spend too much on coffee.

When millionaire rock stars end up in rehab for the umpteenth time, we don't try to insist they don't deserve to be wealthy. They just need to make the right noises about how drugs are bad and they are working on it, but, wow, it is hard to beat an addiction.

When poor (say, homeless) people have an addiction, the narrative is always that their poverty is due to moral failing and they just need to try a little harder, have some self discipline and quit the drugs.

Even when the drug is just overpriced caffeine.

Re: Buy Yourself a Latte

#236

Post by smallgovt » Fri, Apr 05, 2019, 10:17 PM UTC

codr7 wrote: post #186

I grew up in a poor family, could never afford anything unless miracles happened, never went on any trips etc. I later scaled all the way up to much more than I needed as a software developer and lately I'm pretty much down to nothing. The main thing I learned over 42 years of going back and forth is that a warm place to sleep, good health, good food (and coffee) and nice, caring people are priceless. Money is the ul…

>> A warm place to sleep, good health, good food (and coffee) and nice, caring people are priceless. Dropping $5 you don't have on overpriced coffee is proving that it has no power over you.

In modern society, money has power over us no matter how we act. That is, we're forced to make money to sustain a satisfactory quality of life. Wasting $5 on a coffee will actually increase the power money has over you because you will be forced to make more money down the road.

It seems like you're wasting money as either 1) a training mechanism to prevent yourself from developing an attachment to money, or 2) an expressive mechanism to express to yourself/others how much you hate the fact that you have to make money.

I'd suggest finding a healthier mechanism for expression/change than wasting money. Lots of people learn to value things in life other than money without digging themselves into a financial hole.

Re: Buy Yourself a Latte

#237

Post by notyourday » Fri, Apr 05, 2019, 10:17 PM UTC

DoreenMichele wrote: post #112

ineedasername wrote: post #46

If part of your audience consists of people living without much a safety net, that $5 a day adds up. Also, the author's point that saving that much isn't going to be $1 million, but "only" as much as $500,000 then that point rather falls flat. Sure, inflation may decrease the utility of that amount of money, but it will also increase the cost of that latte, so you'll be saving more than just the $5 over time. Finally…

that $5 a day adds up The article isn't advocating that you buy a coffee every single day. It's saying a. focus on larger issues and b. it's okay to do a little self care and a little self indulgence. I sometimes bought myself a fucking coffee of some sort at Starbuck's back when I was homeless. I needed the caffeine to help treat health issues. It let me plug in for an hour and get some electricity for my tablet, pl…

> The article isn't advocating that you buy a coffee every single day. It's saying a. focus on larger issues and b. it's okay to do a little self care and a little self indulgence.

Huh? That's exactly what keeps people that are on a cusp of climing out of the hole in a hole.

It is too bad fatwallet.com is dead. It has very long threads ( years long ) of people describing the tiny improvements that they made and how over years it significantly affected their life in a way they could not imagine when they made that silly "I won't buy $5 late and instead add that $5 to my credit card payment" change.

Re: Buy Yourself a Latte

#238

Post by benj111 » Fri, Apr 05, 2019, 10:21 PM UTC

dyarosla wrote: post #220

codr7 wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who said anything about impressing anyone? Why do you feel the need to attack me and put words in my mouth? If I couldn't care less, how can someone have power over me?

I believe the parent comment to your post was speaking in generalities ( see the ‘if’ )- not misquoting you at all.

Yes, that was my intent.

Re: Buy Yourself a Latte

#239

Post by whalabi » Fri, Apr 05, 2019, 10:26 PM UTC

One coffee every working day was 1% of my income.

So it's not huge but it's not trivial at all.

Especially considering I live in one of those western cities with stagnating wages and absurd property costs.

Re: Buy Yourself a Latte

#240

Post by DoreenMichele » Fri, Apr 05, 2019, 10:27 PM UTC

jimbokun wrote: post #227

DoreenMichele wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

that $5 a day adds up The article isn't advocating that you buy a coffee every single day. It's saying a. focus on larger issues and b. it's okay to do a little self care and a little self indulgence. I sometimes bought myself a fucking coffee of some sort at Starbuck's back when I was homeless. I needed the caffeine to help treat health issues. It let me plug in for an hour and get some electricity for my tablet, pl…

"The article isn't advocating that you buy a coffee every single day." That is EXACTLY what the article is advocating, very explicitly. Your case sounds very different than the "$5 latte a day habit", which is probably just someone standing in line in the morning, grabbing their coffee and absent-mindedly sipping it as they walk to the office. You got an hour of shelter and a comfortable place to sit in a nice enviro…

From the article:

Let’s consider five reasons why you should occasionally treat yourself to a cup of Joe.

It's arguing against the people saying "Your daily coffee habit is costing you a million dollars!" It's saying that is nonsense.

That isn't the same thing as issuing the opposite edict that you, yes you, need to rush out and drink coffee every. single. day.

Defending your right to make such purchases as you see fit isn't actually the same thing as insisting you spend $5 a day on coffee.

But I imagine this comment will fall on deaf ears. Like the time someone asked how to foster independence in their toddler and I told the story about locking up the breakables when my toddler began hurling his dishes into the kitchen sink like it was a basketball hoop so as to let him do his thing without it going bad places.

The eager young parent replied "I like that! I'm going to promptly start making my toddler put their dishes in the sink!!!!"

(facepalm)