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Motel 6 to Pay $12M after Improperly Giving Guest Lists to ICE

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Re: Motel 6 to Pay $12M after Improperly Giving Guest Lists to ICE

#91

Post by gamblor956 »

rdiddly wrote: post #54
gamblor956 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If ICE had compelled Motel 6 to hand over the lists, that would be a very different thing and we would be having a very different conversation. But that's not what happened, and let's not pretend like that is what happened. ICE asked nicely, expecting to be turned down by Motel 6 like most other hotel chains did. But Motel 6 went along with the request without any sort of coercion and in fact in violation of local co…

When you share your source maybe I'll be as sure as you are.

Oasisbob shared the civil complaint. It states quite clearly that there was no coercion on ICE's part...moreover that it was Motel 6 that actually directed its employees to just turn over the information.

On a related note...the owner of the Motel 6 chain is a die-hard supporter of President Trump and has very conservative views of immigration, which supports the theory that Motel 6 was in the wrong here and ICE was merely taking advantage of their corporate generosity.

Re: Motel 6 to Pay $12M after Improperly Giving Guest Lists to ICE

#92

Post by drewrv »

maccio92 wrote: post #83
omegaworks wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I merely assert that the motivations for racial profiling stems more from actual statistics and cost-benefit analysis than intrinsic irrational racism as I think you suggest. That doesn't make racial profiling any more ethical or correct. The evidence is so overwhelming that intrinsic irrational racism is part of the reason why it is done. That evidence includes direct rhetoric of the current administration.

It is done because an overwhelming majority of those entering the country illegal are hispanic. There isn't much more to it than that. It's not racism just because they happen to be the race doing it. If it were any other race it would be treated the exact same way.

If I could convince you that the largest block of visa overstays are from Canada, and that a good chunk of them are from European countries, would you reconsider whether targeting Hispanic people is racist?

https://www.statista.com/chart/9550/foreign-citizens-who-ove...

Re: Motel 6 to Pay $12M after Improperly Giving Guest Lists to ICE

#93

Post by gamblor956 »

shawnz wrote: post #69
oasisbob wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't like it was just people caving to law enforcement in the moment, it was codified Motel 6 policy: > 4.3 ICE's usual practice was to come to Motel 6's reception desk and request the guest list from the receptionist. The receptionist would print out the guest list and give it to the ICE agent, along with a "law enforcement acknowledgment form" for the agent to sign, acknowledging receipt of the guest list. Th…

This could just mean that it was the management that was pressured and not the receptionists. I just don't see any other reason why they might willingly endanger their business and customers for absolutely no benefit to themselves, besides governmental pressure.

Please do some more research before you keep throwing out hypothetical complaints about something that didn't happen.

Motel 6 didn't just go along with ICE's request, per the complaint, Motel6 actually trained their employees to turn over such information even before ICE came calling.

The reason? Motel 6 is owned by the Blackstone Group. Most of the directors and executives of the Blackstone Group are die-hard Trump supporters and have espoused hard-line views on immigration. The benefit to themselves was supporting their president's policies.

Re: Motel 6 to Pay $12M after Improperly Giving Guest Lists to ICE

#94

Post by tantalor »

gamblor956 wrote: post #90
tantalor wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not illegal, sure, but the lack of warrant may (should) mean the information is inadmissible in court. It's no different than if they stole it.

If the information was the type covered by an expectation of privacy, then the lack of a warrant likely would make it inadmissible...until ICE asks the judge for a warrant, for a date range covered by the specific enforcement action at issue, and comes back to court with the now lawfully-obtained information.

A backdated warrant? Surely that's not legal.

Re: Motel 6 to Pay $12M after Improperly Giving Guest Lists to ICE

#95

Post by ceejayoz »

tantalor wrote: post #72
gamblor956 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ICE didn't commit a crime...It is not illegal for government agencies to request information from individuals or companies. Nor did Motel 6 for that matter. It was hit with a civil lawsuit...

Not illegal, sure, but the lack of warrant may (should) mean the information is inadmissible in court. It's no different than if they stole it.

> It's no different than if they stole it.

It's extremely different.

Law enforcement can ask to search in cases where they don't have a warrant or other legal reasons to insist on a search. If you say "yes", the results are admissible. People mess this up all the time when cops pull them over or knock on the door.

Re: Motel 6 to Pay $12M after Improperly Giving Guest Lists to ICE

#96

Post by shawnz »

gamblor956 wrote: post #90
tantalor wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not illegal, sure, but the lack of warrant may (should) mean the information is inadmissible in court. It's no different than if they stole it.

If the information was the type covered by an expectation of privacy, then the lack of a warrant likely would make it inadmissible...until ICE asks the judge for a warrant, for a date range covered by the specific enforcement action at issue, and comes back to court with the now lawfully-obtained information.

I assume that wouldn't retroactively exonerate Motel 6, right?

Re: Motel 6 to Pay $12M after Improperly Giving Guest Lists to ICE

#97

Post by closetohome »

nostromo wrote: post #24

This is... strange. When the federal government comes asking for your help, I think it's pretty normal for people to provide that help. In a just world, if the government asks for something inappropriately, then the party at fault is the government. (In other words, Washington should sue ICE, not Motel 6.) If we want companies to require a subpoena to share information with the federal government (and personally I do…

This kind of deferential attitude towards authority is extremely troubling.

Re: Motel 6 to Pay $12M after Improperly Giving Guest Lists to ICE

#98

Post by closetohome »

maccio92 wrote: post #79
omegaworks wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Enumerate those other purposes? Is one of them to privilege a white majority? Perhaps there's a reason so many call to abolish the institution.

It's in the damn name. Immigration enforcement. We have a legal immigration process in this country, many try to come here illegally. Without a border, you have no country.

Fewer people come here illegally than come here legally and stay illegally.

Most of your "illegal immigrants" are legitimate visitors who overstay their visa.

Re: Motel 6 to Pay $12M after Improperly Giving Guest Lists to ICE

#99

Post by caprese »

YeahSureWhyNot wrote: post #76
YeahSureWhyNot wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

70k arrested for illegal border crossing in march only. I would say it's definitely more than a million if you count the ones who didn't get arrested

its funny how other members upvote the comment that contains a fact from a CBP website and HN mods come in and downvote it. Dear liberal SV people, facts don't disappear just because you downplay them, ask your favorite Hillary:) edit: im assuming its mods downvoting because points go down by 3 but up by 1 at a time

well you can't assume who is downvoting

but the mods will tell you that it is "noisy" at the beginning and that you can't glean anything from it

they'll also tell you that you can't talk about voting (an interpretation of their site guidelines, when convenient), so you can't complain about it or even talk about it as that will also attract downvotes

and they'll also simultaneously believe that it is accurate for downvoted people to be rate-limited for hours on end, preventing them from even responding to a thread that could change how people view their original downvoted message, until any message that doesn't currently have consensus is censored completely and the "noise maker" is shadowbanned

there aren't that many mods here. would be nice if this was a little more holistic

Re: Motel 6 to Pay $12M after Improperly Giving Guest Lists to ICE

#100

Post by ProAm »

code_duck wrote: post #74
nostromo wrote: post #24

This is... strange. When the federal government comes asking for your help, I think it's pretty normal for people to provide that help. In a just world, if the government asks for something inappropriately, then the party at fault is the government. (In other words, Washington should sue ICE, not Motel 6.) If we want companies to require a subpoena to share information with the federal government (and personally I do…

Isn’t it your duty to protect the privacy of your data and your customers regardless of who is requesting data? I thought companies like Twitter and Google routinely rebuffed requests for information from government agencies and opposed restrictive rules, e.g. in China, and are praised for it. The concept of resisting government requests for information is well established. If the police called and asked for my custo…

> I thought companies like Twitter and Google routinely rebuffed requests for information from government agencies and opposed restrictive rules

They say this but look at AT&T and room 641A and the NSA.[1]

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_641A

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