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Motel 6 to Pay $12M after Improperly Giving Guest Lists to ICE

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Re: Motel 6 to Pay $12M after Improperly Giving Guest Lists to ICE

#61

Post by [deleted] »

scarejunba wrote: post #36
Miner49er wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the state of Washington made it illegal it couldn't effect ICE though could it, since they're a part of the federal government?

Is it possible for states to make laws saying that cop-likes can't lie about things? And then for the state to sue the federal government if they violated that? Because the truth is that requiring a warrant won't do the trick. If the cop-like says he doesn't need a warrant I'm going to listen to him. I should always comply in the moment or "we'll do things the hard way". Then afterwards maybe I can sue.

[deleted]

Re: Motel 6 to Pay $12M after Improperly Giving Guest Lists to ICE

#62

Post by dragonwriter »

Frondo wrote: post #46
gamblor956 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If ICE had compelled Motel 6 to hand over the lists, that would be a very different thing and we would be having a very different conversation. But that's not what happened, and let's not pretend like that is what happened. ICE asked nicely, expecting to be turned down by Motel 6 like most other hotel chains did. But Motel 6 went along with the request without any sort of coercion and in fact in violation of local co…

Do we know how ICE asked for these records? Because, from everything else I've ever seen about law enforcement making such requests, there's nothing nice about it, and there's everything coercive about it. And it's a scary kind of coercion because they do have the force of the state backing them up, in a way that plays on our built-in desire to please authority, built-in desire to not rock the boat, and built-in fear…

> Do we know how ICE asked for these records?

We know that Motel 6 didn't claim their staff were misled into a belief that they were legally compelled, which—even if it wasn't a legal defense, for PR reasons—you'd expect them to do if it was true.

Re: Motel 6 to Pay $12M after Improperly Giving Guest Lists to ICE

#63

Post by oasisbob »

Frondo wrote: post #46
gamblor956 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If ICE had compelled Motel 6 to hand over the lists, that would be a very different thing and we would be having a very different conversation. But that's not what happened, and let's not pretend like that is what happened. ICE asked nicely, expecting to be turned down by Motel 6 like most other hotel chains did. But Motel 6 went along with the request without any sort of coercion and in fact in violation of local co…

Do we know how ICE asked for these records? Because, from everything else I've ever seen about law enforcement making such requests, there's nothing nice about it, and there's everything coercive about it. And it's a scary kind of coercion because they do have the force of the state backing them up, in a way that plays on our built-in desire to please authority, built-in desire to not rock the boat, and built-in fear…

This isn't like it was just people caving to law enforcement in the moment, it was codified Motel 6 policy:

> 4.3 ICE's usual practice was to come to Motel 6's reception desk and request the guest list from the receptionist. The receptionist would print out the guest list and give it to the ICE agent, along with a "law enforcement acknowledgment form" for the agent to sign, acknowledging receipt of the guest list. The ICE agent would review the guest list and identify individuals of interest to ICE.

Re: Motel 6 to Pay $12M after Improperly Giving Guest Lists to ICE

#64

Post by gamblor956 »

lixtra wrote: post #40
matt4077 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are fined for improperly handing over data. It seems we have already set that standard in law.

So who from the federal government is charged for their part of the crime?

ICE didn't commit a crime...It is not illegal for government agencies to request information from individuals or companies.

Nor did Motel 6 for that matter. It was hit with a civil lawsuit...

Re: Motel 6 to Pay $12M after Improperly Giving Guest Lists to ICE

#66

Post by gamblor956 »

oasisbob wrote: post #58
gamblor956 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If ICE had compelled Motel 6 to hand over the lists, that would be a very different thing and we would be having a very different conversation. But that's not what happened, and let's not pretend like that is what happened. ICE asked nicely, expecting to be turned down by Motel 6 like most other hotel chains did. But Motel 6 went along with the request without any sort of coercion and in fact in violation of local co…

This is all from the original complaint: https://agportal-s3bucket.s3.amazonaws.com/uploadedfiles/Ano... https://www.atg.wa.gov/motel-6-settlement-claim-information

Motel 6 trained its new employees to follow the practice described above to provide 24 guest lists to ICE agents upon request, without requiring the agents to show any reasonable 25 suspicion, probable cause, or search warrant for the guest registry information.

Re: Motel 6 to Pay $12M after Improperly Giving Guest Lists to ICE

#67

Post by omegaworks »

ErikVandeWater wrote: post #48
staplers wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only known terrorists to be apprehended coming overland into America came from the North.

But stopping terrorism is not the only purpose of ICE.

Enumerate those other purposes?

Is one of them to privilege a white majority?

Perhaps there's a reason so many call to abolish the institution.

Re: Motel 6 to Pay $12M after Improperly Giving Guest Lists to ICE

#68

Post by js2 »

nostromo wrote: post #24

This is... strange. When the federal government comes asking for your help, I think it's pretty normal for people to provide that help. In a just world, if the government asks for something inappropriately, then the party at fault is the government. (In other words, Washington should sue ICE, not Motel 6.) If we want companies to require a subpoena to share information with the federal government (and personally I do…

There's a Washington state consumer protection law. Some Motel 6 locations in the state broke that law by handing over data to Federal officials without a warrant. The Federal officials broke no law in asking for the data without a warrant. It was the hotels which broke the law.

Maybe you could make an entrapment argument against the Federal officials. IANAL, so I don't know how that works. (I guess it's not entrapment because the Federal officials weren't trying to get Motel 6 to break the law for the purpose of going after Motel 6.)

And btw, since when has the law ever been enforced fairly, really?

Re: Motel 6 to Pay $12M after Improperly Giving Guest Lists to ICE

#69

Post by shawnz »

oasisbob wrote: post #63
Frondo wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do we know how ICE asked for these records? Because, from everything else I've ever seen about law enforcement making such requests, there's nothing nice about it, and there's everything coercive about it. And it's a scary kind of coercion because they do have the force of the state backing them up, in a way that plays on our built-in desire to please authority, built-in desire to not rock the boat, and built-in fear…

This isn't like it was just people caving to law enforcement in the moment, it was codified Motel 6 policy: > 4.3 ICE's usual practice was to come to Motel 6's reception desk and request the guest list from the receptionist. The receptionist would print out the guest list and give it to the ICE agent, along with a "law enforcement acknowledgment form" for the agent to sign, acknowledging receipt of the guest list. Th…

This could just mean that it was the management that was pressured and not the receptionists.

I just don't see any other reason why they might willingly endanger their business and customers for absolutely no benefit to themselves, besides governmental pressure.

Re: Motel 6 to Pay $12M after Improperly Giving Guest Lists to ICE

#70

Post by swalsh »

nostromo wrote: post #24

This is... strange. When the federal government comes asking for your help, I think it's pretty normal for people to provide that help. In a just world, if the government asks for something inappropriately, then the party at fault is the government. (In other words, Washington should sue ICE, not Motel 6.) If we want companies to require a subpoena to share information with the federal government (and personally I do…

You can read the details here (https://agportal-s3bucket.s3.amazonaws.com/uploadedfiles/Ano...) It makes a lot more sense when you dig into the specifics.
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