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Motel 6 to Pay $12M after Improperly Giving Guest Lists to ICE

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Re: Motel 6 to Pay $12M after Improperly Giving Guest Lists to ICE

#21

Post by basic6 »

bradlys wrote: post #15

Why would ICE run "latino-sounding" names through and not just all names through whatever ICE database they're cross-referencing? Did they get a 10,000 page print out instead of a spreadsheet file? (why not Scan + OCR + cross reference with database - would be way faster) Just seems like ICE employees are only targeting latinos... intentionally. And that's the most bothering part of this to me. We're cool with Swedes…

Probably because it's not 1 million Swedes entering the country illegally every year.

Re: Motel 6 to Pay $12M after Improperly Giving Guest Lists to ICE

#23

Post by sonnyblarney »

shawnz wrote: post #2

> "Motel 6's actions tore families apart and violated the privacy rights of tens of thousands of Washingtonians," What? I'm pretty sure ICE's actions were what tore those families apart. Why aren't they being punished for illegally requesting the data without a warrant? Maybe the Motel 6 employees who wrongfully gave the data felt pressured, given that ICE is a government agency just like the DOJ?

" I'm pretty sure ICE's actions were what tore those families apart."

No, crossing the border illegally is the 'root cause' - not ICE. ICE's shenanigans are an artifact of that.

But yes, it seems weird that a private entity is in trouble for doing what a government agency 'required' of them.

These grey areas really need to be sorted out, it seems the laws are still unclear.

I think there are probably a ton of ways to sort the border out if there weren't so many extreme voices on all of this.

Re: Motel 6 to Pay $12M after Improperly Giving Guest Lists to ICE

#24

Post by nostromo »

This is... strange.

When the federal government comes asking for your help, I think it's pretty normal for people to provide that help.

In a just world, if the government asks for something inappropriately, then the party at fault is the government. (In other words, Washington should sue ICE, not Motel 6.)

If we want companies to require a subpoena to share information with the federal government (and personally I do want that) then we should set that standard in law. And we should enforce it fairly, not based on the hot political topic of the day. (How much information does the CIA and FBI vacuum up from Washington telcos in a day in violation of this law, and why isn't anyone held to task? Maybe because they have better lawyers than Motel 6.)

Helping the federal government do its job and then getting sued by the state seems like mom getting mad at you for doing what dad asked you to.

Re: Motel 6 to Pay $12M after Improperly Giving Guest Lists to ICE

#25

Post by bradlys »

sonnyblarney wrote: post #19
bradlys wrote: post #15

Why would ICE run "latino-sounding" names through and not just all names through whatever ICE database they're cross-referencing? Did they get a 10,000 page print out instead of a spreadsheet file? (why not Scan + OCR + cross reference with database - would be way faster) Just seems like ICE employees are only targeting latinos... intentionally. And that's the most bothering part of this to me. We're cool with Swedes…

The article is misleading and there's no indication there was any intent to target Latinos, rather, as a result of the handover, Latinos ended up being targeted i.e. if Latinos are more likely on ICE's target list (entirely plausible) than this is going to happen after cross referencing. Edit: re-reading now and it indicates ICE was highlighting Latino names specifically.

From the article:

> "According to our interviews with employees at Motel 6," he told NPR's Scott Simon, "ICE agents would circle the names that looked Latino-sounding and ran those names through a database and then would detain individuals based on those random checks."

Seems pretty intentional targeting to me.

Re: Motel 6 to Pay $12M after Improperly Giving Guest Lists to ICE

#26

Post by matt4077 »

throwaway287391 wrote: post #18
matt4077 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I, too, hope this will deter other companies from illegally handing over the customers‘ data for frivolous fishing expeditions by law enforcement.

Is GP getting downvoted because we're assuming this isn't what they meant?

That was my reading of it, but on second thought it’s almost perfectly ambiguous.

There’s a certain glibness about it that fits better with the malevolent interpretation. Plus hoping for a fine to serve as an example seems just too obvious to merit writing it down?

It’s almost a work of art. Or maybe a Rorschach test. Will the internet interpret your statements in the best or worst possible light?

Re: Motel 6 to Pay $12M after Improperly Giving Guest Lists to ICE

#27

Post by sonnyblarney »

bradlys wrote: post #25
sonnyblarney wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article is misleading and there's no indication there was any intent to target Latinos, rather, as a result of the handover, Latinos ended up being targeted i.e. if Latinos are more likely on ICE's target list (entirely plausible) than this is going to happen after cross referencing. Edit: re-reading now and it indicates ICE was highlighting Latino names specifically.

From the article: > "According to our interviews with employees at Motel 6," he told NPR's Scott Simon, "ICE agents would circle the names that looked Latino-sounding and ran those names through a database and then would detain individuals based on those random checks." Seems pretty intentional targeting to me.

Yes, I re-read that and that definitely implies some kind of filtering, my bad.

Re: Motel 6 to Pay $12M after Improperly Giving Guest Lists to ICE

#28

Post by gamblor956 »

bredren wrote: post #9
mey wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How was it illegal for ICE to request the data? It certainly wasn't ethical, but what is right and what is legal are not the same thing. Hell it sounds like the only law broken according to the article was a Washington State consumer protection law. Hence the settlement is against Motel 6 and not against ICE.

Part of the trouble is ICE's "requests" are not always purported as requests. See recent attempt in New York by ICE agent that he had a legally enforceable warrant and that his goal of detaining a vehicle occupant was not simply a request. [1] The ICE officer in this case even quotes a statute that implied the driver might face penalties for not complying with the officer's demands. Given this behavior, I wonder what…

If ICE had compelled Motel 6 to hand over the lists, that would be a very different thing and we would be having a very different conversation.

But that's not what happened, and let's not pretend like that is what happened.

ICE asked nicely, expecting to be turned down by Motel 6 like most other hotel chains did. But Motel 6 went along with the request without any sort of coercion and in fact in violation of local consumer protection laws prohibiting such data release absent a countervailing legal requirement (such as a subpoena) requiring them to turn over such information.

Re: Motel 6 to Pay $12M after Improperly Giving Guest Lists to ICE

#29

Post by matt4077 »

nostromo wrote: post #24

This is... strange. When the federal government comes asking for your help, I think it's pretty normal for people to provide that help. In a just world, if the government asks for something inappropriately, then the party at fault is the government. (In other words, Washington should sue ICE, not Motel 6.) If we want companies to require a subpoena to share information with the federal government (and personally I do…

They are fined for improperly handing over data. It seems we have already set that standard in law.

Re: Motel 6 to Pay $12M after Improperly Giving Guest Lists to ICE

#30

Post by balabaster »

nostromo wrote: post #24

This is... strange. When the federal government comes asking for your help, I think it's pretty normal for people to provide that help. In a just world, if the government asks for something inappropriately, then the party at fault is the government. (In other words, Washington should sue ICE, not Motel 6.) If we want companies to require a subpoena to share information with the federal government (and personally I do…

> seems like mom getting mad at you for doing what dad asked you to.

Because this never happens XD

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