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Buy Yourself a Latte

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Re: Buy Yourself a Latte

#131

Post by falcolas »

adamisom wrote: post #78
falcolas wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Getting one during the work hours does seem a bit odd to me. Before work or over lunch, however, seems much more reasonable.

Ok, but even then, surely it takes about as much time? The time component of having to go somewhere + get your order + get back is mysteriously ignored all. the. time. Not just with coffee, but with making your own food. Like, you don't want to meal prep it takes too much time--but then you probably spend more time overall getting lunch every day instead! Especially if you have the luxury 'need' for variety every. si…

> Ok, but even then, surely it takes about as much time?

Sure, but it's on your own time, not your employer's time (at least, that's how I read "I have it at my desk").

That said, I will solidly defend the notion that not spending a solid N hours at your desk is a good thing. Stepping away from your desk on your lunch hour, whether it's to purchase a latte, a lunch, or to eat a homemade meal in a nearby park, is a good thing.

Re: Buy Yourself a Latte

#132

Post by failrate »

esotericn wrote: post #54
ineedasername wrote: post #46

If part of your audience consists of people living without much a safety net, that $5 a day adds up. Also, the author's point that saving that much isn't going to be $1 million, but "only" as much as $500,000 then that point rather falls flat. Sure, inflation may decrease the utility of that amount of money, but it will also increase the cost of that latte, so you'll be saving more than just the $5 over time. Finally…

Right. $5 a day is a significant amount of money to a huge number of people. In the UK, if you're on minimum wage, a 3 quid coffee represents approximately 5% of your daily income. If such an individual (someone who earned minwage for a lifetime) were to end up with even "merely" 100K in today's money at age 60 that would actually be an enormous amount relative to their cohort.

If someone has that marginal an income, they will never even begin to start a savings plan, nor will that money survive to retirement. It will be gobbled up by the first medical or vehicular emergency that comes up.

Re: Buy Yourself a Latte

#133

Post by hopler »

lixtra wrote: post #117
devoply wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And so what? That's 1800 tax on you per year. Say it was charged as something like a tax. Nothing that most people in the Western world would be effected significantly by.

> And so what? What you propose is not much different from the social security many countries levy. Typically it’s not an economic efficient way of saving. The absurdity of the forced savings proposal becomes apparent if you cannot afford a life saving operation at age 59 because you cannot access your savings. Please don’t try to add exceptions now. Forced savings is just a bad idea.

Even in the "capitalist hellhole" that is the US, you can get a lifesaving operation even if it bankrupts you, and then you still get social security payments after. and you can borrow money from your 401k.

Re: Buy Yourself a Latte

#134

Post by rdiddly »

While I agree that there's a macroeconomic component to everything and it's a bit disingenuous to Ayn-Rand-blame people 100% for their own economic situation, I also don't think you have to be a new genetic race of super-human to be able to focus on the big things AND the little things? Maybe in that order? The oppositional stance is just theater.

Also if this formulation is true:

If you can't afford a coffee you've got bigger problems.

..then this is also true:

If you've got bigger problems, you can't afford a coffee.

Bigger problems might include having an 18% interest credit card. That needs to be treated as an emergency, as someone said, probably Mr. Money Mustache.

Re: Buy Yourself a Latte

#135

Post by summerdown2 »

matthewaveryusa wrote: post #114

If you're going to add inflation, add inflation to _all_ your numbers. i.e: the cup of coffee will be subject to inflation, and what you save will also increase with inflation. If you run the numbers propagating inflation everywhere instead of cherry-picking, over 40 years you get: total coffee cost: 84k total investment: 220k assumes 5% investment return, 2.5% inflation, and 20 coffees/month spreadsheet here: https:…

Actually, the S&P has delivered 7% after inflation over its history, not 5%, so the returns are even larger than this.

https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/042415/what-average...

The real thing the article misses, though, is the mindset that giving up a latte is meant to symbolise. That's best expressed in this article:

https://jamesclear.com/marginal-gains

The point isn't to just drop the latte and see a massive gain. It's to understand that a set of marginal gains made across your life can, together, have a huge cumulative effect.

Re: Buy Yourself a Latte

#136

Post by scarmig »

I remember when I had my first real salaried job out of college. I had a salary of around $40k, and I was extremely strict about how I spent my money. I managed to limit myself to $10k/year in the inner Bay Area. This was in 2010. And, yes, I accumulated some savings.

At the same time, I deprived myself of many experiences, which had a cost, in happiness, connections, and knowledge.

Nowadays I make and spend order of magnitude more. I would never have gotten to the point I am, though, if I had stuck to spending $10k a year. Even if you're crassly trying to maximize wealth-at-the-time-of-retirement, extreme frugality is a suboptimal strategy.

Set a budget. Don't waste money stupidly. But spend it, and spend it on meaningful experiences that provide you value.

Re: Buy Yourself a Latte

#137

Post by hopler »

twblalock wrote: post #100
ineedasername wrote: post #46

If part of your audience consists of people living without much a safety net, that $5 a day adds up. Also, the author's point that saving that much isn't going to be $1 million, but "only" as much as $500,000 then that point rather falls flat. Sure, inflation may decrease the utility of that amount of money, but it will also increase the cost of that latte, so you'll be saving more than just the $5 over time. Finally…

The point is to focus on the big wins. Save $1000 next time your buy a car and that covers almost a year of $5 lattes every weekday morning. If you overpay on your next car, or negotiate badly on your next job offer, the money you saved by not buying lattes was all for nothing. In other words, major financial decisions vastly outweigh the impact of a daily $5 purchase, so why focus on the small stuff? Yet much financ…

You know what's cooler than saving $1000 every 7 years on a car purchase? Saving $8000 every 7 years on a car purchase and lattes.

Re: Buy Yourself a Latte

#138

Post by hopler »

failrate wrote: post #132
esotericn wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right. $5 a day is a significant amount of money to a huge number of people. In the UK, if you're on minimum wage, a 3 quid coffee represents approximately 5% of your daily income. If such an individual (someone who earned minwage for a lifetime) were to end up with even "merely" 100K in today's money at age 60 that would actually be an enormous amount relative to their cohort.

If someone has that marginal an income, they will never even begin to start a savings plan, nor will that money survive to retirement. It will be gobbled up by the first medical or vehicular emergency that comes up.

I'd rather lose my savings in a vehicular emergency than lose my car and therefore lose my job and future income.

Re: Buy Yourself a Latte

#139

Post by hopler »

falcolas wrote: post #43
AdmiralAsshat wrote: post #27

Counterpoint: The debate is framed as "$5 a day is a waste--put it into your piggy bank every day and drink office sludge instead". I instead say that yes, the office coffee still tastes like fertilizer, but I still think $5 a day for a latte is waste because I can make some excellent coffee at my desk for about a dollar a day using an inexpensive French Press, a hand-grinder (or grinding the beans that morning at ho…

You're exchanging time for money. It's a highly common tradeoff. Prep, brewing, and cleanup amounts can work up to around $3-4 of opportunity cost for a tech professional. Not to mention, french press coffee is not quite equivalent to a latte. Also, I recommend 5 minutes steeping, personally. ;)

Going to a coffee shop takes time too

Re: Buy Yourself a Latte

#140

Post by AlexTWithBeard »

ineedasername wrote: post #46

If part of your audience consists of people living without much a safety net, that $5 a day adds up. Also, the author's point that saving that much isn't going to be $1 million, but "only" as much as $500,000 then that point rather falls flat. Sure, inflation may decrease the utility of that amount of money, but it will also increase the cost of that latte, so you'll be saving more than just the $5 over time. Finally…

$5 a day.

$1800 a year.

In ten years a family of two has $36000. This is downpayment for a house.

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