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Making Video Games Is Not a Dream Job

nytimes.com

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Re: Making Video Games Is Not a Dream Job

#341

Post by hellllllllooo »

lovetocode wrote: post #6

Game developers let themselves be exploited with low pay and unpaid overtime. They should grow a spine and say no to ridiculous work conditions. I am tired of hearing about it. They don’t need to unionize, they need to realize that they have a unique and valuable skill set. If we are talking specifically about programmers, we have the fortunate leverage to tell our employers to go piss up a rope with the weekly job o…

You don't seem to understand what a union is. It's a group of people getting together to "say no to ridiculous work conditions". A union is literally how you join together to say no when you don't have individual power. The level of straight up anti-union rethoric on here without really understanding what a good union does is revealing.

Re: Making Video Games Is Not a Dream Job

#343

Post by sokoloff »

bena wrote: post #335
sokoloff wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree substantially with the first 3 paragraphs of your post and have way less agreement with the last paragraph. [0] Just to be perfectly clear though: I'm glad I did it, have zero regrets, do find nobility in working a crunch period to ship [a demo] on-time as you promised you would [I was tech lead; that we weren't in a position to ship on-time without a crunch time was at least 50% on my shoulders], and would h…

You got out before you found your limit. You think you could have sustained it, but you really don't know because you left. But leaving also means something. And succeeding in the face of adversity is something to be proud of. There are many things I wouldn't change in my life even though they were difficult or caused me to struggle. That's not the point. If I could have learned all I learned, got to where I am, etc…

> Would you rather have hit all of your targets on time without working ridiculous hours?

I don't know. Would I have rather run a 15 minute 2-mile instead of a 13:30 2-mile on my APFT in college and been less sweaty? Would I have rather gotten a B instead of an A on that digital design project while getting more sleep? (Obviously, no one but me could possibly really "care" about either of those scores at this point.)

Taking it specifically to that work topic, would I rather have worked sane hours and shipped an acceptable demo on time or worked ridiculous hours and shipped a stronger demo on time? Even though I know that nothing about my life changed as a result of the latter (because we didn't exceed our minimum units sold for the "monkey points" to pay anything), I'm happy I spent those nights in a sleeping bag at my cube and shipped the best demo and product we could.

For things that I care about at the time, I feel happier and more proud in doing more than the minimum (perhaps even my best), even at the expense of extra time and effort for which incremental compensation isn't tightly/directly linked.

Re: Making Video Games Is Not a Dream Job

#344

Post by 3minus1 »

CM30 wrote: post #97

> For many kids who grew up with controllers in their hands, being a game developer is a dream job, so when it comes to talent, supply is higher than demand This is basically the reason for low wages in quite a few 'passion' driven industries. If a job is something enough people want to do, then talent is cheap and plentiful and companies can provide low wages and poor conditions that for every person who quits, ten…

> artists/musicians/writers/whatever

I've met a lot of girls who want to be fashion designers, and a lot of guys who want to be sports announcers.

Re: Making Video Games Is Not a Dream Job

#345

Post by maxxxxx »

kabacha wrote: post #88
hannasanarion wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And so you kill the dog and get another. People who want to make games are not in short supply.

Software engineering for video games is pretty darn complicated. Surely it must be hard to get hold of the next John Carmack or at least someone remotely close to that. Is demand for good talent really filled here?

The whole talk about "talent" is bullshit. Big corps don't want John Carmacks. They want replaceable, predictable drones that do what they are told to do.

Re: Making Video Games Is Not a Dream Job

#346

Post by SilasX »

themoonbus wrote: post #291
ghaff wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't need to look any further than the film/TV industry in the US. There are any number of guilds with various rules and minimum pay scales, etc. It doesn't keep countless people from waiting tables in LA hoping for their big break.

The job of the guild / union isn't to give everyone a job who wants one, though. It's to ensure that people who have a job are treated fairly.

Yes, but that's important to know if you're proposing unionization in the hopes that it will make it so that every qualified person who wants to work in game development is paid fairly. Like with acting, only a small fraction of people will find such jobs, even with unionization.

Re: Making Video Games Is Not a Dream Job

#347

Post by r_smart »

ahelwer wrote: post #265
chrisseaton wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Unions improve compensation by increasing the share of the profits pie given (or returned, rather) to labor, not by putting a stranglehold on new hiring. How do you think they magically achieve this? Surprise - it's by threatening to restrict supply (not working for the company if they don't agree to the union's terms.)

Threatening to strike is much different from restricting the people who can work for the union?

Yes, they're different things. They're also the two basic tools in the union toolkit for driving up wages.

Re: Making Video Games Is Not a Dream Job

#348

Post by hn_throwaway_99 »

4RealFreedom wrote: post #197
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nepotism is everywhere. In something like art, hiring so and so's son/daughter may cost you $30k but could close you a $10M deal which is good business This is so true, and why you always see royals/semi-royals/royal-hangers-on work in a gallery/auction/museum capacity.

I worked for a large cable company and nepotism was rampant there as well. It seems that if money is involved then nepotism follows.

Yes, nepotism is everywhere, but I would argue that for some of these very insular sectors like art, many jobs exist solely so they can be filled with the relatives of rich potential clients. That's slightly different than some management job being filled by someone who may be less qualified but is still expected to do the work.

Re: Making Video Games Is Not a Dream Job

#349

Post by maxxxxx »

mixmastamyk wrote: post #244
maxxxxx wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The way it usually works is that I say it will take 12 months and the response is "we need it in 6". So I say "fine, we'll give it a go but I am not making any promises" and off we go.

The scope must then be cut, or the project careens into Fantasyland. That happens at some places understood, a sign of incompetent management.

I think the game everybody is playing that it's easier to ask for more money when something is already half done than asking for the whole budget upfront. And you can also cut/adjust scope in the middle.

Re: Making Video Games Is Not a Dream Job

#350

Post by mediocrejoker »

ghaff wrote: post #283
lacey wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m a photographer by hobby and you very often see people wanting to hire someone good but who isn’t expecting to make a living at it with offers like “I’ll let you shoot my event to help build your portfolio, and all you have to do is give me a copy of all the photos.” Or alternatively offering something like $100 for four hours to do lifestyle street shoots. I don’t know how often they are successful at getting pho…

"For the exposure/to build your portfolio." Uggh. To be clear, I sometimes shoot events for free as a favor. And I sometimes shoot concerts or sporting events just because I feel like it. And if you find my photos on Flickr I'll probably give you permission to use them for free. (Though if you want to pay me, that's fine too and I do sometimes get annoyed with the presumption that I'm not going to ask for a fee.) But…

The general sentiment here seems (to me, anyway) to be that photography is one of those things that many people _are_ going to do anyway, which is why it's very difficult to be highly paid for it.

If so many people are willing to do something for free, is it really fair to vilify someone for inquiring as to whether you are one of those people?

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