Making Video Games Is Not a Dream Job • Hacker News Board

Re: Making Video Games Is Not a Dream Job

#271

Post by hutzlibu » Fri, Apr 05, 2019, 4:11 PM UTC

CydeWeys wrote: post #241

hutzlibu wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the company was there first. If the company sucks, than those devs could also found a better company instead of trying to change the bad company. So fighting, yes, but maybe for something solid.

I don't see why that matters. It's legal to go find another job. It's also legal to unionize. Who are you to tell other people what to do? It's fine if you would just leave, but maybe others don't want to. Maybe they've poured their heart and soul into that company, or it's the best job around and if they leave it they'd have to move. There's plenty of reasons why people who are not you would choose to fight instead…

" It doesn't make sense to criticize others for doing something that's perfectly acceptable just because you wouldn't do it."

So you criticize me for criticizing? And that makes sense?

Re: Making Video Games Is Not a Dream Job

#272

Post by lacey » Fri, Apr 05, 2019, 4:12 PM UTC

ghaff wrote: post #254

slg wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>In this case, the demand is “the ability to express myself to a huge audience.” People are willing to pay to do that. Because of that, they see any job where they get to do it as a net positive, even if the job is horrible. This is true for any job that is just an extension of a hobby. People put on local community theater productions in their spare time because they find it fun and fulfilling. You don't have to pay…

See also photography, writing, art, etc. Some professionals are in fact resentful to greater or lesser degrees of amateurs willing to work for free (either just for fun or because it's useful to them professionally for reputational or other reasons). I asked a journalist I knew whether he minded the fact that people like myself publish articles/blogs for free in publications that also have paid staff/freelancers. His…

I’m a photographer by hobby and you very often see people wanting to hire someone good but who isn’t expecting to make a living at it with offers like “I’ll let you shoot my event to help build your portfolio, and all you have to do is give me a copy of all the photos.” Or alternatively offering something like $100 for four hours to do lifestyle street shoots.

I don’t know how often they are successful at getting photographers for these types of things but I know that if I were going to shoot for those kinds of wages I would rather donate my time to a charity that I support.

Re: Making Video Games Is Not a Dream Job

#273

Post by DangitBobby » Fri, Apr 05, 2019, 4:12 PM UTC

rossdavidh wrote: post #167

DangitBobby wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's a difficult claim to make that there's no demand when they specifically state that unpaid overtime is the norm. Why would they need overtime work if there were enough workers?

I think the fact that they can get unpaid work, means they don't need to pay for it. Why pay for 10 people when you can get 5 to do it? No matter how little you pay for labor, free (i.e. unpaid overtime) is cheaper.

Which is why, in this case, unionization isn't just (to paraphrase) ignoring that there's not enough demand.

One intended result is that it would forcibly remove the option of externalizing the consequences of intentionally under-utilizing the labor pool. It prevents bad behavior (behavior that should already be illegal IMO). Freely exploiting your workers because they have no bargaining power should always discouraged.

Re: Making Video Games Is Not a Dream Job

#274

Post by noego » Fri, Apr 05, 2019, 4:13 PM UTC

I'm all for protecting the vulnerable and underprivileged. I'm all for universal healthcare, increased minimum wages/EITC, and increased taxes on the rich.

But I'm very skeptical of the idea that white collar professionals earning well above the median, are somehow in need of "protecting". They have every opportunity to quit the video game industry and take up very lucrative and easygoing jobs in other industries. They are expressly choosing not to do so. That is their choice, and their burden to bear.

Anything that reduces competition in the marketplace is bad for society as a whole. This is why I'm all in favor of anti-trust regulations and breaking up the tech giants. This is also why I'm not a fan of unions. Maybe a case can be made for specially disadvantaged demographics. I just don't see it for programmers.

Re: Making Video Games Is Not a Dream Job

#275

Post by mrits » Fri, Apr 05, 2019, 4:14 PM UTC

bigtex wrote: post #229

In high school, (mid 90's) I desired to be a video game developer, because I thought hey I like to play video games so maybe that should be my career! That all changed when I read the Next Generation (greatest gaming mag of all time) issue on working in the gaming industry. After reading about conjugal visits on the office floor because husbands would be stuck at the office for weeks trying to the game finished, that…

Unions seem to try to solve a problem to make sure everyone is treated fairly but they really just make sure everyone gets the same thing. If everyone gets the same thing I lose my motivation. It might be a character flaw but I know I'm not alone. I suppose it might not make a big difference in some industries but in the ones I've been involved in the few difference makers on a team kept us in business.

Re: Making Video Games Is Not a Dream Job

#276

Post by jquery » Fri, Apr 05, 2019, 4:15 PM UTC

gregcrv wrote: post #253

CM30 wrote: post #97

> For many kids who grew up with controllers in their hands, being a game developer is a dream job, so when it comes to talent, supply is higher than demand This is basically the reason for low wages in quite a few 'passion' driven industries. If a job is something enough people want to do, then talent is cheap and plentiful and companies can provide low wages and poor conditions that for every person who quits, ten…

The other practical solution is basic income. In a basic income society people can do (if they want) the jobs they have a passion for without poor conditions. And people who will want a higher income will do the jobs that a few people can do (highly skilled jobs..), or wants to do (picking up garbage, cleaning toilets...). These jobs will probably have much better conditions than now.

Who is going to pick up garbage in a basic income society and why? Don’t be surprised if you have to pay these people radically more than they are currently paid. In which case COL goes up significantly and the basic income doesn’t go as far and we are back to square one.

Re: Making Video Games Is Not a Dream Job

#277

Post by alexnewman » Fri, Apr 05, 2019, 4:15 PM UTC

"Making X Is Not a Dream Job" -> It's almost as if you are building something cool and exciting then some people find that as an additional reward as well.

Re: Making Video Games Is Not a Dream Job

#278

Post by darepublic » Fri, Apr 05, 2019, 4:16 PM UTC

Even when doing something you love if you have to do it at the command of someone else it can be misery inducing.

Re: Making Video Games Is Not a Dream Job

#279

Post by disease » Fri, Apr 05, 2019, 4:18 PM UTC

Wouldn't it be more accurate to say that making video games for a corporation is not a dream job? I've entered 8 game jams and generally enjoyed the experience. It sucks when you can't complete your game but when I did it felt like I landed on Mars! I'd love to make games professionally put as is made clear in the article and comments, 'passion jobs' tend to suck.

Re: Making Video Games Is Not a Dream Job

#280

Post by lacey » Fri, Apr 05, 2019, 4:18 PM UTC

ben509 wrote: post #233

derefr wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the only practical solution is for people to stop taking on terrible jobs because of some sense of 'passion' So the “practical” solution is to change human nature? That doesn’t sound right. It’d be like saying that the practical solution to human trafficking is for people to stop visiting prostitutes; or that the solution to gangs’ drug income is for people to stop buying drugs. In all these cases, you can quash su…

> So the “practical” solution is to change human nature? We could at least stop giving young people terrible advice like, "you can do anything, live your dream!" "Get a practical job to pay the bills, and do your dream as a side gig," is a pretty reasonable compromise. Most people are have a low tolerance for risk and it's a problem when they get into a field that requires being a risk taker. That tolerance for risk…

My observation is that a lot of teachers knew they were going into a profession known for low pay but lacked the financial literacy and practical experience at college age to understand that “low pay” meant “struggling to survive” rather than “you’re not going to own the biggest house on the block.”

As a result they walk out of school with debt, find it difficult to find a position (because e.g. some high school level positions in the US have very few vacancies), and end up taking whatever they can get or if they cannot get anything in teaching take some other low-wage job after following their passion led them to a short-term dead-end.