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Making Video Games Is Not a Dream Job

nytimes.com

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Re: Making Video Games Is Not a Dream Job

#201

Post by erik998 »

I think in general software developers can use something like SAG to enforce a basic daily minimum rate.

https://www.sagaftra.org/production-center/contract/810/rate...

Daily rates for developers, dbas, qa's and such...

The same guild could make special rate sheets for different stages of a firm. For example SAG has a daily rate sheet for indy films, a software dev guild could have one for startups as well. This could at least prevent abusive startups.

https://www.sagindie.org/signatory/

If you are a star developer equivalent to a celebrity actor, these would just be the minimum rates. There is nothing preventing a studio from paying more.

If anything this would resolve the use of contract labor 1099 misclassifications. If you are good enough to get paid above 120k you could have a loan out corporation and deduct more of your costs while still paying union fees.

https://abspayroll.com/loan-out-companies/

https://firemark.com/2015/01/12/should-you-have-a-loan-out-c...

This wouldn't be a an factory type union. It would be something like a professional union like SAG.

Read the rate sheets to get a better understanding.

Re: Making Video Games Is Not a Dream Job

#202

Post by travbrack »

derefr wrote: post #171
CM30 wrote: post #97

> For many kids who grew up with controllers in their hands, being a game developer is a dream job, so when it comes to talent, supply is higher than demand This is basically the reason for low wages in quite a few 'passion' driven industries. If a job is something enough people want to do, then talent is cheap and plentiful and companies can provide low wages and poor conditions that for every person who quits, ten…

> the only practical solution is for people to stop taking on terrible jobs because of some sense of 'passion' So the “practical” solution is to change human nature? That doesn’t sound right. It’d be like saying that the practical solution to human trafficking is for people to stop visiting prostitutes; or that the solution to gangs’ drug income is for people to stop buying drugs. In all these cases, you can quash su…

Careful with those analogies

Re: Making Video Games Is Not a Dream Job

#203

Post by chrisseaton »

ahelwer wrote: post #144
r_smart wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

|Unionisation may help By restricting the supply of talent, thus artificially driving up wages, but at the same time keeping a lot of people from being able to pursue their dream.

Unions improve compensation by increasing the share of the profits pie given (or returned, rather) to labor, not by putting a stranglehold on new hiring.

> Unions improve compensation by increasing the share of the profits pie given (or returned, rather) to labor, not by putting a stranglehold on new hiring.

How do you think they magically achieve this?

Surprise - it's by threatening to restrict supply (not working for the company if they don't agree to the union's terms.)

Re: Making Video Games Is Not a Dream Job

#204

Post by lotu »

coldtea wrote: post #142
lovetocode wrote: post #6

Game developers let themselves be exploited with low pay and unpaid overtime. They should grow a spine and say no to ridiculous work conditions. I am tired of hearing about it. They don’t need to unionize, they need to realize that they have a unique and valuable skill set. If we are talking specifically about programmers, we have the fortunate leverage to tell our employers to go piss up a rope with the weekly job o…

> They don’t need to unionize, they need to realize that they have a unique and valuable skill set. Without unionizing, even if all of current employed and poorly paid game developers realized this, there would be no shortage of people coming in to undercut them.

This is effectively how the game industry works. Young idealistic people get hired and work for a few years; and eventually realize this is shit deal burn out, quit and get replaced.

Re: Making Video Games Is Not a Dream Job

#205

Post by paulddraper »

CM30 wrote: post #97

> For many kids who grew up with controllers in their hands, being a game developer is a dream job, so when it comes to talent, supply is higher than demand This is basically the reason for low wages in quite a few 'passion' driven industries. If a job is something enough people want to do, then talent is cheap and plentiful and companies can provide low wages and poor conditions that for every person who quits, ten…

Teaching is another such job.

Re: Making Video Games Is Not a Dream Job

#206

Post by chrisco255 »

jimmy1 wrote: post #147
hnarn wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I see a lot of anti-union talk on HN That's because most people on HN are from the U.S. where a century of propaganda has convinced most people not only that poor people are lazy, but by extension that unions are evil, corrupt and lazy organizations infiltrated by organized crime. While this propaganda has a minority basis in reality in some cases, as all propaganda will have because propaganda can't be 100% fantas…

The easiest way to debunk your claim that it is purely propaganda is to give easy counter-examples. In this case, may I present to you New York's finest: The MTA and LIRR. where rampant abuse of the system is everywhere and somehow, amazingly, have one of the highest disability claim rates out of any group of workers in the country. Either working for the MTA or LIRR is one of the most dangerous jobs in the country,…

An "employee owned organization" seems like a better alternative to unions, in my opinion.

Re: Making Video Games Is Not a Dream Job

#207

Post by djsumdog »

lovetocode wrote: post #127
djsumdog wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was fired from a shop that made a game backend and asked workers to continually crunch, work long hours on salary with no overtime. There were some big bonuses, but it didn't make up for the bad planning and management. I refused to work over 45 hours a week. I worked one 13 hour Sunday and said no to the 2nd one and was fired. Another dev/ops person left two weeks later. The others: almost all of the team is still…

I love your story! There is always a risk standing up for what you believe in. The fact they fired you over this shows their lack of respect for their employees. How long did it take you to find work after being fired?

I honestly didn't try very hard at first and I was trying to avoid job recruiters. I took two months off before even looking, so in total, I was out of work for five month.

Re: Making Video Games Is Not a Dream Job

#208

Post by r_smart »

pmyteh wrote: post #140
r_smart wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

|Unionisation may help By restricting the supply of talent, thus artificially driving up wages, but at the same time keeping a lot of people from being able to pursue their dream.

Only if union membership is both required and restricted. In each of my workplaces, union membership has been optional and open to anyone who works there. It's weaker bargaining-wise than a closed shop with entry requirements, but we've still been able to collectively negotiate to better outcomes (the current round is UCU's dispute with the universities and their pension fund over proposed changes to the pension sche…

Fair enough. I'm used to union arrangements where membership is required for the given profession, which is pretty common in the US.

There's been a movement to right to work, but even then, the non-union employees are forced to abide by the union negotiated contract, which is bullshit.

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