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Show HN: I made a platform for journalists to “open source” their fact checking

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Re: Show HN: I made a platform for journalists to “open source” their fact checking

#271

Post by hannasanarion »

ousta wrote: post #270
hannasanarion wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You realize that "being wrong" is not the same as "lying" right? Every news source reported on the inconsistencies in Jussie Smollett's story, and continued to update their reporting as the facts turned against him. They're newspapers, not oracles.

it is. they reported that it was a racist attack - because of trump - before checking the fact. it is fake news.

They reported on the claims that were made. Once again, newspapers are not oracles. Facts change from day to day and stories develop over time.

There's a reason that the Times puts out a new edition every day, instead of releasing just a singe one 2000 years ago that we all worship as indisputable truth.

"Fake news" is reporting that Barack Obama, Black Lives Matter, and Anonymous are planning riots in 37 city centers at 7 pm on July 15 2016, as Breitbart, the Daily Caller, and other far-right news sources reported two days before. The story was entirely made up, and most of the text was copied from a chain email from the 00s.

Re: Show HN: I made a platform for journalists to “open source” their fact checking

#272

Post by tptacek »

stcredzero wrote: post #246
tptacek wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regarding the Boston rally and the south Asian candidate: you're talking about Shiva Ayyadurai, the guy who (in my understanding of reports, which could be erroneous) sues people who contradict his claim of having invented electronic mail, has (to my understanding, which could be flawed) appeared on white supremacist podcasts, and used (as I understand it, based on reports) a caricature of himself as Pepe the Frog in…

Regarding the Boston rally and the south Asian candidate: you're talking about Shiva Ayyadurai, the guy who (in my understanding of reports, which could be erroneous) sues people who contradict his claim of having invented electronic mail, has (to my understanding, which could be flawed) appeared on white supremacist podcasts, and used (as I understand it, based on reports) a caricature of himself as Pepe the Frog in…

Sure, in this case, "white supremacist" might not be the technical term for the bigotry involved. And, regarding the many meanings of kek, Pepe, and all that (and aside from the fact that the person who asked him to "bless" the statue is a white supremacist) --- sure, if you say so, dude.

Re: Show HN: I made a platform for journalists to “open source” their fact checking

#273

Post by ousta »

hannasanarion wrote: post #271
ousta wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it is. they reported that it was a racist attack - because of trump - before checking the fact. it is fake news.

They reported on the claims that were made. Once again, newspapers are not oracles. Facts change from day to day and stories develop over time. There's a reason that the Times puts out a new edition every day, instead of releasing just a singe one 2000 years ago that we all worship as indisputable truth. "Fake news" is reporting that Barack Obama, Black Lives Matter, and Anonymous are planning riots in 37 city center…

hence why you do not report on something as being a fact before it is proven and before you investigate the claim. Its like me reporting the earth is flat because someone said it.

Re: Show HN: I made a platform for journalists to “open source” their fact checking

#274

Post by hannasanarion »

ousta wrote: post #273
hannasanarion wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They reported on the claims that were made. Once again, newspapers are not oracles. Facts change from day to day and stories develop over time. There's a reason that the Times puts out a new edition every day, instead of releasing just a singe one 2000 years ago that we all worship as indisputable truth. "Fake news" is reporting that Barack Obama, Black Lives Matter, and Anonymous are planning riots in 37 city center…

hence why you do not report on something as being a fact before it is proven and before you investigate the claim. Its like me reporting the earth is flat because someone said it.

No other facts were available. The claim was itself the news, with updates pending a police investigation. This isn't complicated. Investigating crimes is the police's job, not every single newspaper in the world's.

Should all of the world's newspapers have held off on reporting the MAGA bombs until Cesar Sayoc's conviction?

Should we all have pretended that nothing was wrong about the world trade center until the 9/11 commission filed their final report?

Re: Show HN: I made a platform for journalists to “open source” their fact checking

#275

Post by throwaway284721 »

metasj wrote: post #188
beat wrote: post #109

Awkward question here... can anyone cite an example of a major-media news story that was actually factually wrong in a way that "open source fact checking" could have detected it? Just because a bunch of people believe it's a problem doesn't mean it's a problem. I find the bias, when it exists, is in the presentation, not the facts themselves. And mainstream journalism is really committed to getting the facts right.

My favorite example, much clearer even than Covington (and never corrected in the major media): the bus driver who drove drove his bus off of a bridge: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-46068412 For whatever reason, the official police report implied that a passenger struggled with the driver causing the disaster. The next day, video footage of the entire event was released (from the security cam inside the b…

What's interesting about this is that there isn't even a narrative or a partisan bias here. The media just lies because there's no reason not to.

Re: Show HN: I made a platform for journalists to “open source” their fact checking

#276

Post by throwaway284721 »

rootusrootus wrote: post #59

Great project, but this seems like a classic example of a programmer naively assuming a technical solution can solve a social problem.

Technical solutions solve social problems all the time. A lock is a technical solution to the social problem of theft, and much superior to a social solution.

Re: Show HN: I made a platform for journalists to “open source” their fact checking

#277

Post by throwaway284721 »

Fiahil wrote: post #33
ahnick wrote: post #7

IMHO reputation is important to build into the base level for a platform like this. Allowing anon registrations and commenting will eventually lead to a lot of noise and abuse of the platform for misinformation. I think some sort of verification of a person's qualifications on particular subject areas and then allowing them to only "fact check" on those qualified areas is required here to have an effective platform t…

Equally important : Don't display reputation to users other than themselves. Humans will attributes higher trust level to individuals with higher reputation, despite them occasionally dropping false claims.

Isn't that the purpose of reputation? Some people are more trustworthy then others, even if they aren't perfect.

Re: Show HN: I made a platform for journalists to “open source” their fact checking

#278

Post by Konnstann »

hannasanarion wrote: post #236
colechristensen wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"An article on Sunday about once-dominant N.H.L. teams adjusting to an evolving league misstated the number of conference finals appearance by the Kings, the Ducks and the Blackhawks since 2009. It is 10, not nine. Because of an editing error, an earlier version also misstated the number of playoff appearances by those teams in that span. It is 24, not 27." An example from the new york times from yesterday. Obviously…

Yeah, and they corrected the error themselves and published the correction. This is why they are trustworthy. Making a mistake is not the same as lying.

One narrative is that News outlets knowingly put out false or incomplete information because nobody cares about edits or retractions after the first day or so. They get clicks from outraged people and then after the cpm drops off they edit the story with the real facts, to claim that it was a "mistake". Kind of conspiratorial, but given the political bias of a lot of media outlets not completely out of question.

Re: Show HN: I made a platform for journalists to “open source” their fact checking

#279

Post by ousta »

hannasanarion wrote: post #274
ousta wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

hence why you do not report on something as being a fact before it is proven and before you investigate the claim. Its like me reporting the earth is flat because someone said it.

No other facts were available. The claim was itself the news, with updates pending a police investigation. This isn't complicated. Investigating crimes is the police's job, not every single newspaper in the world's. Should all of the world's newspapers have held off on reporting the MAGA bombs until Cesar Sayoc's conviction? Should we all have pretended that nothing was wrong about the world trade center until the 9/…

not my point. but don't say it is a terrorist attack before proven. don't say it is a racist attack by two white men wearing a maga hat before its proven. can you imagine implications of people lynching to people with red caps in the street thinking its them?

Re: Show HN: I made a platform for journalists to “open source” their fact checking

#280

Post by hannasanarion »

ousta wrote: post #279
hannasanarion wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No other facts were available. The claim was itself the news, with updates pending a police investigation. This isn't complicated. Investigating crimes is the police's job, not every single newspaper in the world's. Should all of the world's newspapers have held off on reporting the MAGA bombs until Cesar Sayoc's conviction? Should we all have pretended that nothing was wrong about the world trade center until the 9/…

not my point. but don't say it is a terrorist attack before proven. don't say it is a racist attack by two white men wearing a maga hat before its proven. can you imagine implications of people lynching to people with red caps in the street thinking its them?

And at what point did the evil lying media say those things? They said that "Jussie Smollett claims he was attacked by a group of racists late at night. He was relased from the hospital with minor injuries. Police are investigating it as a hate crime". Those are facts.

Here are some examples, quote the statements that were verifiably false at the time.

Police report offers chilling details on Jussie Smollett Attack - https://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/newly-revealed-report-o...

Jussie Smollett attacked in possible hate crime - https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/29/entertainment/jussie-smollett...

Jussie Smollett releases first statement about attack - https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/01/arts/jussie-smollett-atta...

Police say Jussie Smollett attacked in possible hate crime - https://www.npr.org/2019/01/29/689758253/police-say-empire-a...

Jussie Smollett hospitalized after attack, police are investigating as a hate crime - https://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/empire-actor-jussie-sm...

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