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Making Video Games Is Not a Dream Job

nytimes.com

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Re: Making Video Games Is Not a Dream Job

#61

Post by Pfhreak »

whatshisface wrote: post #39
Pfhreak wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my experience it was the ic level. Leadership would say, what's a reasonable timeline for feature x. The engineers would spend two hours arguing that estimates are bullshit, then give a trivially small (and obviously wrong) estimate. Leadership would say, are you sure? Engineers would basically flip them the bird and say yes. Then inevitably be late. I get it, estimating is inexact. But there's a clear difference…

Why wouldn't they give a trivially large (and very safe) estimate? Telling someone you will be finished tomorrow puts the onus on you to explain why your estimate was wrong.

Great question. They have pet features. Features with long estimates are targets for being cut. Give a long estimate, you risk not being able to build your feature.

I once asked, how long to add analytics to your code? (I wrote a one line utility that could bundle up objects and fire them off for you.) The response was "three weeks per event". Guess which part of the code didn't have analytics.

Now, at some level this is leadership's fault. They own the culture, but many of the engineers I worked with in games were the least interested in being a part of a team I've ever seen.

Re: Making Video Games Is Not a Dream Job

#62

Post by glitchc »

lovetocode wrote: post #52
maxehmookau wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>They should grow a spine and say no to ridiculous work conditions. YES! You're absolutely right! > They don’t need to unionize. Err... Why on earth not? That would literally be the definition of growing a spine and saying no to ridiculous work conditions but also having it be effective.

I probably jumped the gun on the unionization part. I don’t know a lot about it but my impression of unions is not so bright. Maybe my ignorance is showing with that regard

It's all the propaganda corporations have been feeding you about how evil unions are. The wage stagnation of employees and stratospheric rise in senior management pay can be directly correlated to the decline of unions in North America.

Re: Making Video Games Is Not a Dream Job

#63

Post by Helloworldboy »

maxehmookau wrote: post #47
lovetocode wrote: post #6

Game developers let themselves be exploited with low pay and unpaid overtime. They should grow a spine and say no to ridiculous work conditions. I am tired of hearing about it. They don’t need to unionize, they need to realize that they have a unique and valuable skill set. If we are talking specifically about programmers, we have the fortunate leverage to tell our employers to go piss up a rope with the weekly job o…

>They should grow a spine and say no to ridiculous work conditions. YES! You're absolutely right! > They don’t need to unionize. Err... Why on earth not? That would literally be the definition of growing a spine and saying no to ridiculous work conditions but also having it be effective.

Because there's a line out the door of young, fresh-out-of-college programmers and artists ready to replace them the instant they consider unionizing.

Re: Making Video Games Is Not a Dream Job

#64

Post by nukeop »

Making videogames is a great hobby though. One of the traditional appeals of writing roguelikes is that you can spend minimal effort on graphics and related cruft and boilerplate, and jump straight into implementing any fun mechanic you can think off. If you like the idea of creating games, do something less stressful as a day job, and make games as a hobby. A single person can release a game made as a hobby. This way you have full control, no stress, and don't need to take financial risks.

Re: Making Video Games Is Not a Dream Job

#66

Post by LostInTheWoods2 »

This turned out to be an article about tech workers unionizing ... which I just don't see that as a solution in the tech industry in general, especially when companies have the choice to offshore their staffs. At the end of the day, we developers are well compensated, and have great mobility. If you find yourself getting a raw deal, just pickup your keyboard and go somewhere else.

Re: Making Video Games Is Not a Dream Job

#67

Post by maxehmookau »

lovetocode wrote: post #52
maxehmookau wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>They should grow a spine and say no to ridiculous work conditions. YES! You're absolutely right! > They don’t need to unionize. Err... Why on earth not? That would literally be the definition of growing a spine and saying no to ridiculous work conditions but also having it be effective.

I probably jumped the gun on the unionization part. I don’t know a lot about it but my impression of unions is not so bright. Maybe my ignorance is showing with that regard

My knowledge of unions is based entirely on the UK. They allow groups of employees who are subject to poor conditions to group together and participate in collective bargaining. Most programmers in the UK are not a member of a union as pay is fairly high and conditions relatively good, but the majority of public-sector and a lot of private-sector workers are. Unionising would be an excellent first step for employees fighting back.

I see a lot of anti-union talk on HN, I don't think a lot of the criticism of unions I see here is fair.

Re: Making Video Games Is Not a Dream Job

#68

Post by baud147258 »

gavman wrote: post #31

> For many kids who grew up with controllers in their hands, being a game developer is a dream job, so when it comes to talent, supply is higher than demand. That's the crux of this entire article in one sentence. This might be an upopular opinion here, but right now the supply of developers overall [across all industries] is much lower than demand. No one is forcing a developer to work for a game studio. It might be…

I know one guy who is like that, he realized his dream by doing it as a side job and it look like he's been successful so far (released one game, worked as a writer for a handful of other games)

Re: Making Video Games Is Not a Dream Job

#69

Post by diggan »

lovetocode wrote: post #52
maxehmookau wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>They should grow a spine and say no to ridiculous work conditions. YES! You're absolutely right! > They don’t need to unionize. Err... Why on earth not? That would literally be the definition of growing a spine and saying no to ridiculous work conditions but also having it be effective.

I probably jumped the gun on the unionization part. I don’t know a lot about it but my impression of unions is not so bright. Maybe my ignorance is showing with that regard

Would be interesting to know exactly why you think (even if you know you don't know) unionization are not so good.

So far on HN, I've noticed that people from the US seems to not like the idea at all about unionization while people from EU (me included!) see unionization as something good that protect workers. I do know that efforts around unionization are very strong in Europe, and helpful for the workers. Maybe there was a previously unsuccessful attempt in the US and peoples impression comes from that?

Re: Making Video Games Is Not a Dream Job

#70

Post by terragon »

collyw wrote: post #54
ed312 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did exactly what you described. Unfortunately there is an endless supply of fresh grads (and even very talented amateurs with no schooling) willing to work absolutely slave-like conditions to "live the dream".

Out if interest is writing games any more fun than writing web / database apps?

In that case, you pay for it with a lower salary.

If that's not an acceptable tradeoff, you can always make your dream indie game on weekends.

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