Who Pays the Price for Selling $10 Bills for $5? • Hacker News Board

Re: Who Pays the Price for Selling $10 Bills for $5?

#41

Post by fabricexpert » Fri, Apr 05, 2019, 12:44 PM UTC

countryqt30 wrote: post #32

fabricexpert wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not the volume of jobs, it’s the quality. Driving a taxi or delivering food is a pretty bad job, doing it as a self employed contractor is almost criminal. You have to cover all your own expenses and have no guarantee of work, with zero progression (ever heard of an Uber driving saving up and staring their own minicab business?). It’s a terrible economic decision. The market does not correct for this as it is en…

Again, nobody forces you to do this so what's the point?

Do you really think people doing gig economy jobs have alternatives? It's not a "lifestyle choice", it's literally looking around and saying what can I do that will pay my bills, today. And if these are the only options available this is what you "choose".

Re: Who Pays the Price for Selling $10 Bills for $5?

#42

Post by huffmsa » Fri, Apr 05, 2019, 12:46 PM UTC

542458 wrote: post #37

huffmsa wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Replace all of the ports on the bill with a single USB-C port and call it revolutionary ? Edit1: /s Slightly more seriously, you could promise to anyone who bought a $10 bill that in some x number of years they could redeem that bill for $20. This is called "being the Treasury and Federal Reserve". The hard part is finding a way to invest the $5 of profit they gave you in an asset which will appreciate faster than yo…

The difference being that the fed can actually reliably keep that promise, since they can issue new currency and borrow at extremely low rates... Edit: https://money.stackexchange.com/questions/5400/why-is-the-fr...

I'm being a bit hyperbolic, but only a bit.

Re: Who Pays the Price for Selling $10 Bills for $5?

#43

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Apr 05, 2019, 12:48 PM UTC

deweller wrote: post #16

I genuinely don't understand the argument that tech companies are hurting society by providing lower paying gig-economy jobs. By providing more jobs, these companies are increasing options for workers looking for jobs. No one is forcing Uber drivers to drive passengers. If there is a shortage of labor, then the prices paid to workers will increase due to market forces. If there is not a shortage of labor, then people…

[deleted]

Re: Who Pays the Price for Selling $10 Bills for $5?

#44

Post by onion2k » Fri, Apr 05, 2019, 12:49 PM UTC

countryqt30 wrote: post #32

fabricexpert wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not the volume of jobs, it’s the quality. Driving a taxi or delivering food is a pretty bad job, doing it as a self employed contractor is almost criminal. You have to cover all your own expenses and have no guarantee of work, with zero progression (ever heard of an Uber driving saving up and staring their own minicab business?). It’s a terrible economic decision. The market does not correct for this as it is en…

Again, nobody forces you to do this so what's the point?

I think you're demonstrating a point of view that's tragically common here on HN - you're assuming that people are never desperate, and that they always have an alternative to choose instead. Many people are in the position where they only have one option and have to pick that to earn a living. That's not strictly being forced to work a job that sucks, but the reality is they don't have a choice if the alternative is starving or losing their home.

So sure, nobody is forcing anyone to drive for Uber, but there are people who have to drive for Uber because they don't have any other opportunities in the short term.

Re: Who Pays the Price for Selling $10 Bills for $5?

#45

Post by huffmsa » Fri, Apr 05, 2019, 12:50 PM UTC

Razengan wrote: post #29

huffmsa wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Replace all of the ports on the bill with a single USB-C port and call it revolutionary ? Edit1: /s Slightly more seriously, you could promise to anyone who bought a $10 bill that in some x number of years they could redeem that bill for $20. This is called "being the Treasury and Federal Reserve". The hard part is finding a way to invest the $5 of profit they gave you in an asset which will appreciate faster than yo…

That gave me another idea which I haven't considered the implications of, but it sounds fun and video game'y: Electronic/Smart bills, that keep track of how many times they've been used to purchase stuff with. After a bill has been circulated N times, it increases in value by Y, and/or unlocks special artwork. Some bills may become highly sought-after collectibles worth far more than their face value. Would it help o…

Well that shifts the value away from the bill being a promissory note and back to being the actually valuable item. Kind of like a commodities backed currency, which most nation's try to avoid.

Re: Who Pays the Price for Selling $10 Bills for $5?

#46

Post by joosters » Fri, Apr 05, 2019, 12:53 PM UTC

deweller wrote: post #16

I genuinely don't understand the argument that tech companies are hurting society by providing lower paying gig-economy jobs. By providing more jobs, these companies are increasing options for workers looking for jobs. No one is forcing Uber drivers to drive passengers. If there is a shortage of labor, then the prices paid to workers will increase due to market forces. If there is not a shortage of labor, then people…

What about the people in the industries being 'disrupted' by the strategy of flooding the market with unsustainably-cheap products or services (e.g. taxi drivers being undercut by Uber) ?

Re: Who Pays the Price for Selling $10 Bills for $5?

#47

Post by sideshowb » Fri, Apr 05, 2019, 12:54 PM UTC

golergka wrote: post #18

deweller wrote: post #16

I genuinely don't understand the argument that tech companies are hurting society by providing lower paying gig-economy jobs. By providing more jobs, these companies are increasing options for workers looking for jobs. No one is forcing Uber drivers to drive passengers. If there is a shortage of labor, then the prices paid to workers will increase due to market forces. If there is not a shortage of labor, then people…

Copenhagen principle of moral entanglement in action: regardless of cause and effect, the most powerful actor that is somehow entangled in a situation is called the one responsible by the media.

It makes logical sense to direct efforts towards change at a body that is powerful enough to enact change.

There is usually a confusion of practical and moral responsibility, of course. Moral responsibility is a heuristic based on evolutionary incentives, that sometimes is and sometimes isn't useful for enacting change.

Re: Who Pays the Price for Selling $10 Bills for $5?

#48

Post by sideshowb » Fri, Apr 05, 2019, 12:55 PM UTC

deweller wrote: post #16

I genuinely don't understand the argument that tech companies are hurting society by providing lower paying gig-economy jobs. By providing more jobs, these companies are increasing options for workers looking for jobs. No one is forcing Uber drivers to drive passengers. If there is a shortage of labor, then the prices paid to workers will increase due to market forces. If there is not a shortage of labor, then people…

Your argument hangs on the assumption of perfect competition and therefore a frictionless market.

Neither of these assumptions hold in practice.

Re: Who Pays the Price for Selling $10 Bills for $5?

#49

Post by scarface74 » Fri, Apr 05, 2019, 12:55 PM UTC

i_am_proteus wrote: post #31

deweller wrote: post #16

I genuinely don't understand the argument that tech companies are hurting society by providing lower paying gig-economy jobs. By providing more jobs, these companies are increasing options for workers looking for jobs. No one is forcing Uber drivers to drive passengers. If there is a shortage of labor, then the prices paid to workers will increase due to market forces. If there is not a shortage of labor, then people…

Because workers often stake their livelihoods on a single source of income. This is perilous enough when the source of income is result of them making contributions to the economy at the actual market rate. But there is nothing "market rate" about rank-and-file work for a company that's pouring gasoline on VC money and setting it ablaze. If demand for your labor is only due to artificially low prices, that demand wil…

Are you just referring to gig economy workers or white collar workers who are also getting six figure incomes based on VC money? How much less would even profitable companies have to pay for white collar workers if they didn’t have to compete with VC funded startups and there were bunch of people out of work because VC funding dried up?

Re: Who Pays the Price for Selling $10 Bills for $5?

#50

Post by matt4077 » Fri, Apr 05, 2019, 12:56 PM UTC

deweller wrote: post #16

I genuinely don't understand the argument that tech companies are hurting society by providing lower paying gig-economy jobs. By providing more jobs, these companies are increasing options for workers looking for jobs. No one is forcing Uber drivers to drive passengers. If there is a shortage of labor, then the prices paid to workers will increase due to market forces. If there is not a shortage of labor, then people…

I genuinely don’t get people denying even the existence of opposing arguments. I am perfectly fine with arguing against them, even in such juvenile Ayn Rand terms. But to just pretend that there is no argument whatsoever seems disingenuous.

- Über replaces taxis. Taxi drivers are relatively well situated wrt to pay, insurance, etc. Uber drivers are working poor. Therefore, the middle class wins, the lower class suffers.

- In some cases, Uber replaces other modes of transportation, such as public transit. If you drive everywhere, you should hate Uber for clogging the streets. Also the environment, etc.

- Uber is a shitshow internally. Remember hw they bought nice jackets for everyone on the team, except the single woman because they wouldn’t get a mass discount on that jacket? Yeah...