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Google cancels AI ethics board in response to outcry

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Re: Google cancels AI ethics board in response to outcry

#161

Post by jbarciauskas »

redwood wrote: post #149

This is a shameful situation. We need to all wake up and take a step back and realize what's happening here: increasingly you can't have a conversation about one issue unless you are a hundred percent pure in the eyes of a frankly self-proclaimed judge jury and executioner for 100% of your other views. I am of the left myself but on a meta-level what we're doing is essentially making it impossible to ever find middle…

This board could have been non-partisan, filled with leading thinkers in the space from academia and industry, and given meaningful access and authority. Google management decided to make it clear the whole thing was a sham by specifying they'll work a whole 8 hours a year and inviting someone who was wholly unqualified.

There are many reasons to fear for the future of our political discourse but I don't think this is one. This was just poorly thought through.

Re: Google cancels AI ethics board in response to outcry

#162

Post by hyperman1 »

empath75 wrote: post #154
redwood wrote: post #149

This is a shameful situation. We need to all wake up and take a step back and realize what's happening here: increasingly you can't have a conversation about one issue unless you are a hundred percent pure in the eyes of a frankly self-proclaimed judge jury and executioner for 100% of your other views. I am of the left myself but on a meta-level what we're doing is essentially making it impossible to ever find middle…

I don’t think it’s possible or desirable to find common ground with fascists, personally.

The rise of fascist in pre-WW2 Germany has to be seen in its cultural context. The country was a mess after WW1 and the attitude of neighboring countries which amounted to let's kick 'm while they are laying down.

The German population was desperate enough to welcome everybody promising some kind of solution. At that time that was the communists or the fascists. If you're hungry and the fascists promise bread, you're going to look away a little if a few of them are nasty.

History has shown neither choice was very constructive. But that's today. A new kind of desperation is growing, and a new kind of assholes are feeding off it. So please let's find a way to find common ground with the other side of the political spectrum. 'Their' solution might seem wrong, but the problems they point to is real and needs urgent solving. If 'we' are sitting on our high horse, pointing out their flaws, without providing our own real solutions, there is no reason for them to even take notice of us. And we do know form history what happens next.

Re: Google cancels AI ethics board in response to outcry

#163

Post by humanrebar »

kenneth wrote: post #156
empath75 wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think it’s possible or desirable to find common ground with fascists, personally.

Thanks for being a great example of what GP was talking about. Shutting down discussions about issues based on the pretext that the people you disagree with are "fascist" or "bigots" is a huge part of the problem. (And yes, the other side does the same while calling you "communists" — doesn't change anything)

> And yes, the other side does the same while calling you "communists" — doesn't change anything

Well, both the right and left thinks the other is the fascist. The right also thinks the left is communist. Both think the other is bigoted in different ways.

Re: Google cancels AI ethics board in response to outcry

#164

Post by redwood »

kuzehanka wrote: post #152
redwood wrote: post #149

This is a shameful situation. We need to all wake up and take a step back and realize what's happening here: increasingly you can't have a conversation about one issue unless you are a hundred percent pure in the eyes of a frankly self-proclaimed judge jury and executioner for 100% of your other views. I am of the left myself but on a meta-level what we're doing is essentially making it impossible to ever find middle…

You articulated so well what I've been observing. With the widening political divide, we find ourselves in this weird situation where any decision makers are swarmed with moral outrage attacks unless they're the bastions of politically correct ideology. An increasing number of topics are taboo because merely opening up a discussion around them summons the moral outrage army. Moral outrage has become most effective so…

What I find especially sad is I am a total believer in political correctness as a general courtesy to people and I think it's the right thing to do. However by simply sharing my upthread viewpoint that we need to be careful about this meta-trend I will probably be lumped in as one of these dark web right wing types even though it couldn't be further from the truth.

Re: Google cancels AI ethics board in response to outcry

#165

Post by krishicks »

tree_of_item wrote: post #146
mike00632 wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Heritage Foundation is famous for their attacks on LGBT people, saying that they shouldn't have children and shouldn't have basic human rights. Literally there are tweets from the exact person in question suggesting that trans people don't exist.

Literally there are no such tweets.

They may be referring to tweets such as this, linked elsewhere in the comments: https://mobile.twitter.com/KayColesJames/status/110836523877...

Re: Google cancels AI ethics board in response to outcry

#166

Post by redwood »

empath75 wrote: post #154
redwood wrote: post #149

This is a shameful situation. We need to all wake up and take a step back and realize what's happening here: increasingly you can't have a conversation about one issue unless you are a hundred percent pure in the eyes of a frankly self-proclaimed judge jury and executioner for 100% of your other views. I am of the left myself but on a meta-level what we're doing is essentially making it impossible to ever find middle…

I don’t think it’s possible or desirable to find common ground with fascists, personally.

I simply disagree. We need to get away from the us versus them narrative and find common ground. Otherwise we destin ourselves to repeat the problems of the first half of the last century.

I completely find many views among many people on the right in this country in the category of what I would call fascist at this point. I do find that alarming. We also need to understand the similar views are being found on the left--views that I will admit I also can see the romanticism of because I have coarse am on the left. But these fringes are feeding each other in a dangerous way that's tearing us apart when reality we all have so much in common.

Ultimately what I'm espousing here is that we need to be realistic about the nature of democracy. The institutions of the democracy which keep it sound against the will of the masses over the long run are only as strong as the trends of those masses. And this is a very dangerous trend.

Re: Google cancels AI ethics board in response to outcry

#167

Post by seanmcdirmid »

tiglionabbit wrote: post #82
smelendez wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is regional, though. I'm from New York and I've addressed groups of older female relatives as "you guys" without anyone batting an eye. In other parts of the country that's not common and people see "guys" as gendered, and people feel like you're forgetting they're there. The word "dude" as a form of address is gender neutral and business appropriate some places and not others. It's a hard problem: Y'all works s…

It's not really regional. I have noticed this most from folks who are transitioning genders. Some are OK with "they", but some prefer folks to go above and beyond to affirm their new gender, thus objecting to "dude" and "guys". As a result, I've gotten into the habit of saying "y'all" and "folks" even though I'd otherwise never have used these words.

It is regional outside of the USA, quickly gaining gender neutrality in the UK, Australia, India, .... y’all or folks won’t cut it in those places.

Re: Google cancels AI ethics board in response to outcry

#168

Post by bo1024 »

jbarciauskas wrote: post #161
redwood wrote: post #149

This is a shameful situation. We need to all wake up and take a step back and realize what's happening here: increasingly you can't have a conversation about one issue unless you are a hundred percent pure in the eyes of a frankly self-proclaimed judge jury and executioner for 100% of your other views. I am of the left myself but on a meta-level what we're doing is essentially making it impossible to ever find middle…

This board could have been non-partisan, filled with leading thinkers in the space from academia and industry, and given meaningful access and authority. Google management decided to make it clear the whole thing was a sham by specifying they'll work a whole 8 hours a year and inviting someone who was wholly unqualified. There are many reasons to fear for the future of our political discourse but I don't think this i…

Maybe I'm wrong here, but I think a real challenge is that a group of only leading thinkers from academia and industry has a very good chance of being labeled partisan -- possibly with good reason. The American population's opinions are not well represented among that group.

(edit) Maybe what you're getting at is that the mission of the group should be more explicitly non-partisan, and then hopefully politics stays away from it altogether. That sounds like a good idea.

Re: Google cancels AI ethics board in response to outcry

#169

Post by redwood »

hyperman1 wrote: post #162
empath75 wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think it’s possible or desirable to find common ground with fascists, personally.

The rise of fascist in pre-WW2 Germany has to be seen in its cultural context. The country was a mess after WW1 and the attitude of neighboring countries which amounted to let's kick 'm while they are laying down. The German population was desperate enough to welcome everybody promising some kind of solution. At that time that was the communists or the fascists. If you're hungry and the fascists promise bread, you're…

I actually think it's unfortunate you're being downvoted because you're right: the Weimar Republic was torn apart by two extremes who were feeding off each other-- sure one that we on the left can generally agree espoused romantic views and the other hateful, but let's not put our heads in the sand around the reality of what was happening in Russia during the twenties and pretend that if the far-left fringe had won everything would have been wine and roses. Really what needed to happen was for the Weimar Republic to withstand the assaults from the extremes.. sadly the trend we're witnessing now seems to be towards a weakening of the center which is exactly the danger.

Re: Google cancels AI ethics board in response to outcry

#170

Post by sadris »

pjc50 wrote: post #133
93s6oz wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is polarising. An extreme take. I haven't seen anybody make the argument that trans people should be killed. Just that men should not be able to use women bathrooms. In this case, that's the argument. Turning it into something like that is not going to help anybody.

> I haven't seen anybody make the argument that trans people should be killed Brunei?

Think their law applies to homosexuals, not transexuals.
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