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Boeing CEO Dennis Muilenburg Addresses the Ethiopian Airlines Flight 302 Report

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Re: Boeing CEO Dennis Muilenburg Addresses the Ethiopian Airlines Flight 302 Report

#221

Post by mnm1 »

cyberferret wrote: post #92
781 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, then I'm irrational too, because I won't set foot in a 737 MAX after this shitfest. The FAA also lost a lot of trust, for rubber-stamping this. The first accident was maybe understandable. We all know that shit happens. But Boeing has zero excuses for not immediately grounding the whole fleet after, and for putting out that useless recovery procedure which didn't work in this case. They let a deadly plane fly f…

> The FAA also lost a lot of trust, for rubber-stamping this. From documents I've seen (which I cannot find the links to now), it appears that the FAA let Boeing themselves do some of the certification work and sign offs. Putting the foxes in charge of the hen house, so to speak.

This is deregulation in action. This is what people clamor for when they say they want "small government." This is in no way a fringe position. It is deliberate and desired by an entire political party in the US. And it's hardly limited to the FAA. The meat and coal industries are just some other examples of this deregulation in action. People die and will die because of this philosophy. It may not be as dramatic in other industries as it is in aviation, but death is death. We should remember that when politicians and their supporters start throwing about phrases like "deregulation" and "small government." This kind of tragedy is what those phrases mean.

Re: Boeing CEO Dennis Muilenburg Addresses the Ethiopian Airlines Flight 302 Report

#222

Post by jayalpha »

peteradio wrote: post #7
zaroth wrote: post #4

This is Boeing’s first volley as MCAS is now definitely and undeniably fatally flawed. I am fairly confident that by the time we are done with this, a system called MCAS never flies again. Even if it means the entire MAX is shelved.

That would be an astronomical loss, I just don't see that happening.

In the end, not the FAA but the consumer may decide this. Honestly, I will avoid this plane for at least 1, possible 2 years.

Re: Boeing CEO Dennis Muilenburg Addresses the Ethiopian Airlines Flight 302 Report

#223

Post by siruncledrew »

bitreality wrote: post #154
ndespres wrote: post #55

I know better than to read between the lines on a press release like this, but can't help but notice that it falls far short of accepting responsibility for the problem. He admits that MCAS "activated in response to erroneous angle of attack information" but doesn't admit that this alone directly resulted in the crashes. Rather, he implies that this sets off a chain of events which the pilots are unable to deal with…

With the way litigation works, corporations will never admit blame for anything, since it greatly increases their legal risk. It's unfortunate, but their responsibilities lie with their shareholders, not the people who lost their lives on their planes.

I know it's about litigation and looking out for themselves, but Boeing had to have been apprised of the reports and findings from multiple agencies about the circumstances of the crash prior to this announcement. Surely, some granule of awareness had to sink in for Boeing and the CEO to realize "Damn, we fucked up." One way or another, the public is going to realize Boeing seriously fucked up, whether they will admit it or not. The total dollar amount of the damage is still going to be settled in court, but there's no escaping the fact that Boeing's actions had an impact in this catastrophe. Boeing would have to be incredibly oblivious to hold a position that they had nothing to do with this.

But that's not how this whole show goes. CEOs are like robots that only act happy or serious. Go into a press conference and act all remorseful for the public, but don't ever offer a genuine apology or own up to the company's actions. Then when all the legal dust clears, the CEO can give a later update about how he is "shocked and appalled" that a verdict could possibly blame Boeing. What a joke.

Re: Boeing CEO Dennis Muilenburg Addresses the Ethiopian Airlines Flight 302 Report

#224

Post by mnm1 »

peteradio wrote: post #74
zaroth wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think $3B in R&D, half of that is the engines, but more importantly, time to market trying to compete with Airbus. They can reuse the engines. If the airframe can’t fly safely without MCAS (it’s getting a new type rating anyway at this point, right?) then I think perhaps it shouldn’t fly.

Yea somehow I don't think that's how they are crunching the numbers. Stock price is probably sitting on the assumption that those 5000 orders at cool 128M are going to go through. That would be considered 600B loss.

That's two billion roughly per life lost. Seems like a small price to pay. The CEO should be going to jail too. I highly doubt any of this will happen. Human lives are probably worth a million or two at most to a corporation like Boeing and the political apparatus that lets it operate these planes.

Re: Boeing CEO Dennis Muilenburg Addresses the Ethiopian Airlines Flight 302 Report

#225

Post by enriquto »

Simple_Guy wrote: post #215
ndespres wrote: post #55

I know better than to read between the lines on a press release like this, but can't help but notice that it falls far short of accepting responsibility for the problem. He admits that MCAS "activated in response to erroneous angle of attack information" but doesn't admit that this alone directly resulted in the crashes. Rather, he implies that this sets off a chain of events which the pilots are unable to deal with…

You can't admit fault or imply so. The legal department will veto it.

> You can't admit fault or imply so. The legal department will veto it.

They should do it anyway. After the Challenger and Columbia disasters, there were major public changes at NASA. If there are none at Boeing now, we have a huge problem (since the number of deaths is an order of magnitude larger!).

Re: Boeing CEO Dennis Muilenburg Addresses the Ethiopian Airlines Flight 302 Report

#226

Post by mhandley »

treis wrote: post #111
mhandley wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As far as I know, MCAS has never activated in service due to actual high AoA. However, even the 737 classic could have "interesting" pitch up characteristics: "The Boeing 737-300 was on approach to Bournemouth Airport following a routine passenger flight from Faro, Portugal. Early in the ILS approach the auto-throttle disengaged with the thrust levers in the idle thrust position. The disengagement was neither command…

MCAS wouldn't have been active since the flaps were down.

You are, of course, correct. I've not heard anything about whether lift from the nacelles on the Max could be more of an issue than on older 737s in such circumstances. Perhaps it's not an issue at low airspeeds? Would be interesting to know.

Re: Boeing CEO Dennis Muilenburg Addresses the Ethiopian Airlines Flight 302 Report

#227

Post by PopeDotNinja »

781 wrote: post #5
xiphias2 wrote: post #2

,,We remain confident in the fundamental safety of the 737 MAX.'' Am I irrational for not wanting to be on the first 1-2 years of flights on 737 MAX after it gets its software update?

Well, then I'm irrational too, because I won't set foot in a 737 MAX after this shitfest. The FAA also lost a lot of trust, for rubber-stamping this. The first accident was maybe understandable. We all know that shit happens. But Boeing has zero excuses for not immediately grounding the whole fleet after, and for putting out that useless recovery procedure which didn't work in this case. They let a deadly plane fly f…

I will. I like flying places, and I'm not going to let some unfortunate hiccups get in the way of that. I trust Boeing and the people who work on airline safety a heck of a lot more than I trust ride share drivers who flip U-turns in the middle of the block, slam on the brakes, narrowly miss bicycle riders, etc. And I use the heck out of Lyft & Uber. I've got better things to worry about.

Re: Boeing CEO Dennis Muilenburg Addresses the Ethiopian Airlines Flight 302 Report

#228

Post by ptidhomme »

jayalpha wrote: post #218
Stryder wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The integrity of engineering excellence should never be sacrificed for profit and/or conveniency in places where it involves human lives. Realistically and pragmatically speaking, you only ever get to have just one single shot at establishing and maintaining that kind of life/death level of trust. Fuck it up, and you're gone- quite literally, mind you. This is some Challenger O-ring type of shitshow. Accidents are on…

"The integrity of engineering excellence should never be sacrificed for profit and/or conveniency in places where it involves human lives." There is always a trade off, your statement is too bold for a world of limited resources. We can use engineering to make the roads safer. Spent a trillion USD on road safety will save lives for sure. But maybe it is spend better on cancer R&D efforts? The safest plane would be th…

I must say I disagree with this stance.

It's not so much a matter of ressources than of specifically engineering excellence. There's plentiful examples of a much better product that was created with less ressources than the shitty existing competition (this must be commonplace for HN members).

I'm convinced the safest plane is not the most expensive, it's the one designed through sound and clear-sighted engineering.

Re: Boeing CEO Dennis Muilenburg Addresses the Ethiopian Airlines Flight 302 Report

#230

Post by lolc »

> This update, along with the associated training and additional educational materials that pilots want in the wake of these accidents, will eliminate the possibility of unintended MCAS activation and prevent an MCAS-related accident from ever happening again.

How can he claim this? They'd have to remove MCAS for this to be true.

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