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MIT cuts ties with Chinese tech firms Huawei, ZTE

reuters.com

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Re: MIT cuts ties with Chinese tech firms Huawei, ZTE

#191

Post by nickpsecurity »

toufiqbarhamov wrote: post #189
nickpsecurity wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chinese culture encourages sharing ideas, not copyrighting ownership. Some things I've read say it comes from Confucianism. Regardless, they think it's good to spread and remix existing ideas instead of giving one party exclusive rights for 20-100+ years for their own profit. I agree with them that sharing ideas and tech seems to be a better default. If we had protections, they should be much more selective and caref…

Chinese culture encourages sharing ideas, not copyrighting ownership. Some things I've read say it comes from Confucianism. Regardless, they think it's good to spread and remix existing ideas instead of giving one party exclusive rights for 20-100+ years for their own profit. Except the communist party which controls all of China, and takes a highly authoritarian stance on the free spread of information they dislike…

"Except the communist party which controls all of China, and takes a highly authoritarian stance on the free spread of information they dislike and fear of course. "

They don't dislike foreign I.P. that their businesses can use to get rich. They also don't seem to dislike what Shenzhen is doing since they're not throwing the copycats in jail. It looks like the communist party is fine with this concept.

Controlling information they fear to stay in power is a different topic entirely. They're all about that. That's why they have the Wall, censhorship, etc. You also seem to be conflating what Chinese individuals and businesses will do if they aren't restricted vs what their government imposes on them. The culture I'm describing applies to the former. I have no idea how the latter thinks past preserving and expanding their power.

Re: MIT cuts ties with Chinese tech firms Huawei, ZTE

#192

Post by jdsully »

Barrin92 wrote: post #172
jdsully wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your own article contradicts you with respect to Japanese and IP theft. Its thesis is that they were just playing the game better: ''Are the Japanese picking our brains?'' a congressional staffer asks. ''Yes. They're doing it very well. They're doing it legally. The question is whether we have a two-way street.'' The Chinese accusations are that illegal methods are used. Which is a major difference.

>The Chinese accusations are that illegal methods are used. Which is a major difference. It's really not until the accusations are actually proven to be true. Remember that Bloomberg story about Chinese spy chips in every device on the planet ? Whatever happened to that one? In the current dispute with Huawei, how many accusations are substantiated? Do the Japanese simply get the benefit of the doubt because we're ju…

It is notable that in prior episodes with Japan the accusations were never made.

Re: MIT cuts ties with Chinese tech firms Huawei, ZTE

#194

Post by elkos »

tdaltonc wrote: post #150
novaRom wrote: post #63

I just finished reading 'AI Superpowers' and I hardly understand now if US has any single chance to compete with China's Tech fairly, openly, democratically, with respect.

You should go back and read that book much more skeptically. That whole book is a PR piece from a VC trying to generate deal flow. Scratch below the surface and there's not much substance to his 3 big arguments. http://www.paulgraham.com/submarine.html

Well, thank you this was a pretty good read. I'm volunteering in a small nonprofit and do believe we work on interesting stuff but when I try to reach out to the press I feel they are totally uninterested. (Most of the time... The state/public TV usually is more open to us)

Re: MIT cuts ties with Chinese tech firms Huawei, ZTE

#195

Post by justinjlynn »

oh_sigh wrote: post #179
msie wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uh, if there was explicit instruction at the beginning not to scrape internal data and code, then there would be no misunderstanding in the first place. Was there any NDA???

Maybe the cultural misunderstanding was that you actually need to pay attention to those explicit instructions.

"Woah, I didn't know it was like... a rule, bro."

Re: MIT cuts ties with Chinese tech firms Huawei, ZTE

#196

Post by _ptgt »

nickpsecurity wrote: post #185
Brain_Thief wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've read your comment several times and am having trouble understanding your underlying point - could you elaborate?

Chinese culture encourages sharing ideas, not copyrighting ownership. Some things I've read say it comes from Confucianism. Regardless, they think it's good to spread and remix existing ideas instead of giving one party exclusive rights for 20-100+ years for their own profit. I agree with them that sharing ideas and tech seems to be a better default. If we had protections, they should be much more selective and caref…

I'm not so sure this is actually a cultural thing and not a convenience given the times thing.

The Chinese education system seems to emphasize that many "Chinese" ideas were stolen by "foreigners"in previous generations. This hardly seems to jibe with the claims of merely cultural understandings of ownership.

Re: MIT cuts ties with Chinese tech firms Huawei, ZTE

#197

Post by withhighprod »

m0zg wrote: post #171
thrwawayw434 wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you follow ML ? A lot of big-impact papers in Computer vision has come directly from mainland China and Hong Kong. MSRA, CUHK, Sensetime, and Baidu have made quite a few advances in the field.DMLC a group of members composed mostly of Chinese students basically wrote things like MXNET and Xgboost. Granted most of these are collaborative ventures, but calling China 'catching up' at this stage is ignorant.

And yet nearly all SOTA research is done in the US. Eventually folks in China realize they could easily be making $500K+/yr at FANG and be financially independent in 10 years, so they leave for the much, much greener US pastures, and stay here.

[dead]

Re: MIT cuts ties with Chinese tech firms Huawei, ZTE

#198

Post by aiphex »

nickpsecurity wrote: post #185
Brain_Thief wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've read your comment several times and am having trouble understanding your underlying point - could you elaborate?

Chinese culture encourages sharing ideas, not copyrighting ownership. Some things I've read say it comes from Confucianism. Regardless, they think it's good to spread and remix existing ideas instead of giving one party exclusive rights for 20-100+ years for their own profit. I agree with them that sharing ideas and tech seems to be a better default. If we had protections, they should be much more selective and caref…

China's technological contributions to the 20th century were next to nill. It's easy to share when it means playing with everyone else's toys.

Re: MIT cuts ties with Chinese tech firms Huawei, ZTE

#199

Post by nomnomray »

FussyZeus wrote: post #68
nomnomray wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

isn't all companies subject to the laws of their respective host countries? The narrative of "party rules all" is way too simplistic to form an argument. At least I would be curious to look for past events of how the party exerted influence on non-state-owned-enterprises.

Laws, yes. Will, no. The Chinese Government regularly leverages influence on it's largest companies to great effect. Apple is subject to the laws of the United States (allegedly) but the US Government hardly has a say in what they do within the scope of those laws.

And laws are the will of the government ratified by justice (sometimes meaninglessly). How did will of the people held up against the canning of net neutrality? What say did the people have in the sanction and re-sanction of Iran?

The OP claims government policy dictates everything. Has anyone passed a thought what "policy" actually mean? Is it law or under the table practice? Not you nor the OP said anything substantial other than "they do it". No shit. FBI is also working their hardest to gain access privilege through everyway they can in the scope of their capacity. The real question to ask is not whether the Chinese government will influence Chinese companies, but HOW and whether companies like Huawei can resist or has resisted in the past.

Re: MIT cuts ties with Chinese tech firms Huawei, ZTE

#200

Post by ryacko »

partiallypro wrote: post #166
ryacko wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What grey area? It was bad enough they decided to send him home.

How was it bad that they sent him home? A spy is a spy. In China they would have just killed him or imprisoned him if a student were sending information "back home." If you don't believe me that China simply kills spies, look at the spy purges in the Obama years after a breach in the CIA's communications.

I have read enough spy novels to become convinced that both sides just send each other lies and siphon off their budgets for personal luxuries.
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